Yes, he has been critical of over-moderation on the physics SE but as far as I could see he was always polite and respectful about it. I cannot see why this alone should have got him banned? What have I missed here?

I cannot access any of the chat that I presume led to Dilation's ban. I think it may have been deleted. If so, could mods undelete/link to relevant information about this to clarify things?

Many thanks.

EDIT:

Still no announcement from the SE mods I have put Dilation's profile link back (mod removed and I had not noticed until just now) so people can see who I am referring to.

Validity of 'moderator agreement' explanations given below in line with the conversation here too?

enter image description here

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A word on vocabulary: no one has been "banned". All suspensions are for finite duration, and this one in particular is not punitively long. – dmckee Apr 24 at 18:25
That is what the edit button is for @dmckee. Closed? This is meta... – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:26
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@Magpie: Because it won't generate anything constructive (speculation rarely does), and it has been answered to its fullest extent. – Manishearth Apr 24 at 18:30
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No it has not been answered. This is a freedom issue. Everything published on stackexchange belongs to the people under the creative commons. Unless I am mistaken these conversations were public not private. – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:34
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@Magpie: the stuff that was deleted was on the main site and, CC or not, was clearly off-topic. CC-Wiki means you're free to copy, adapt and share (with attribution) - it doesn't mean we have to host every last bit of garbage someone posts for all eternity. – Shog9 Apr 24 at 18:43
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@Magpie: No, it belongs to SE, attributed to the writer of the post under CC-BY-SA. See section 3, "You agree that all Subscriber Content that You contribute to the Network is perpetually and irrevocably licensed to Stack Exchange under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license." – Manishearth Apr 24 at 18:46
Anyway, I reopened it. – Manishearth Apr 24 at 19:10
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Regarding your edit: This has nothing to do with Dilaton posting in chat. When it comes to a suspension, it is best to just let the community team handle it if necessary. Feel free to investigate on your own or ask Dilaton (it's not too hard to contact him if you know where to look), but all this speculation doesn't lead to anything constructive. I'm not saying this because I want to cover something up, I'm saying this because the speculation is not good for Dilaton's privacy, nor does it lead to any useful discussion. – Manishearth Apr 25 at 6:23
@Manishearth I am doing this. Don't worry. – Magpie Apr 25 at 12:51
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@Manishearth, your comment is somewhat misleading: as no copyright assignment takes place, copyright still resided with the original contributor; it only 'belongs' to SE under the terms of CC-BY-SA, but that is equally true for 'the people'; this of course doesn't mean that SE is required to host the content – Christoph Apr 29 at 13:12
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@Christoph: Yes, copyright resides with the original contributor, that's what I mean by "attributed". However, SE has the right to do whatever they want (including removing) with the data. And these conversations don't fall under "Subscriber Content" anyway. The banned user may release these (and not be punished for it -- it is perfectly OK to do this), but we will not. – Manishearth Apr 29 at 13:17
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Quick note: the edit history shows that you edited out the link to Dilaton's profile, not a moderator. Also, it sounds like you're still waiting for some announcement from us (Physics mods), but for reasons already explained, there will be no such announcement beyond what has already been posted. – David Zaslavsky 2 days ago

2 Answers

Sorry, we are bound by the moderator agreement to not discuss the reasons behind bans. Let's just say that he had a fair warning, and that this was not politically motivated. You may email team@stackoverflow.com if you want additional oversight, though I believe that they already have looked over the issue.

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Could you please provide link to the moderator agreement that you are referring to? Are we not able to learn the reason for the warning? – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:24
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@Magpie: physics.stackexchange.com/legal/moderator-agreement - and Manish is right, he can't reveal (or undelete) the comments that led to this. – Shog9 Apr 24 at 18:26
Unfortunately the "other moderator policies" mentioned there aren't included there, however I ought to be able to find a link. – Manishearth Apr 24 at 18:27
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@Shog9 why would they be connected with his personally identifiable info? Presumably this happened in the public domain so it belongs to all of us. – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:29
@Magpie: It's the "other moderator policies" bit. If you want, contact Dilaton and ask him for a screenshot of the suspension message (and the short conversation that followed). He can still see that. – Manishearth Apr 24 at 18:31
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@Magpie: moderator warnings and other messages associated with suspensions are private, and no mod-accessible "undelete comment" function exists in the software (you can try Google cache if you're really, really curious). Dilaton can talk about this publicly if he wishes; if he does not wish it to be public, that's his prerogative and Manishearth is respecting that. – Shog9 Apr 24 at 18:33
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@Shog9 he was talking about it and his conversations got deleted. He is not able to return to speak for himself. I am asking to see conversations leading up to his ban. This seems perfectly possible without including specific moderator warnings. – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:36
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Moreover I was in the room when Dilation received one of these warnings. Though I could not tell what it was for, but I was there to see it. How does that fit with the moderator agreement? – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:37
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For the record, I am reviewing the events surrounding Dilaton's suspension. I won't be able to comment on them publicly (this is between Dilaton, the moderators, and now us - the community team at SE), but there you go. (cc @Magpie) – Anna Lear Apr 24 at 18:40
@Magpie: the publicly-relevant portions of this are still public in chat, if you're interested (I believe they were moved into a separate room, but not deleted). The discussion that followed is private; if Dilaton wants to share it, he'll be able to post here again in just a bit over a week - or you can try contacting him privately if you prefer. If he doesn't want to talk about it, then - again - that's his choice and I would ask that you please respect his privacy in the matter. – Shog9 Apr 24 at 18:40
@Magpie: I don't recall deleting anything from that chat room. It's not about specific mod warnings, it's about giving a user their privacy about the reasons for suspension. Suspension isn't meant to be a way to ostracize a user (which it can turn out to be if the details are exposed). Suspension is just meant to be a state in which the user can reflect. – Manishearth Apr 24 at 18:41
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I will let @AnnaLear get on with her review and hope that things will become clearer soon. Peace. – Magpie Apr 24 at 18:43
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This answer is very unsatisfying. You could tell us whether the suspension was for bad language, without saying what he said, or violating a rule, without saying how exactly he did, and so on – MBN Apr 25 at 10:42
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@MBN: "It would satisfy my curiosity" This is exactly what I'm talking about. This seems to be the Internet equivalent of rubbernecking; move along. Re:"to cool down" -- meh, that's just a consequence of the template used while sending the message. It need not always reflect the real reason. – Manishearth Apr 25 at 12:24
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@MBN I have word from dilation that it is related to his popular answer to a question I asked about policy on closing certain questions. – Magpie Apr 25 at 12:48
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Here is the message Manishearth wrote to me as he banned me

sent Apr 21 at 22:57

Hello,

I'm writing in reference to your Physics Stack Exchange account:

http://physics.stackexchange.com/users/2751/dilaton

I've noticed that you have widely spammed the following comment on many closed questions:

People who diagree with this recent change in policies, which disallows questions about any study material and references (papers), instigated by David Zaslavsky and a few other powerful people without the whole community having a saying about it, you should have a look at this meta thread and vote accordingly. There are some people who disagree with these new policies, but they are not powerful enough. Study material/reference questions should exactly be allowed for the site to be useful for students and researchers.

I have multiple things to say about this:

It has already been made clear to you that this is neither a recent change in policies, nor is it "instigated by David Zaslavsky". You have been warned about making similar accusations in the past, which is why I am suspending you for 14 days.

Posting this comment all over the place is not OK. This is a form of spamming, and is an offence that one can be suspended for. Please consider this your final warning; do not continue with this once this suspension is lifted.

The policies do not disallow "questions about any study material and references (papers)". Again, this has already been explained to you. The older book questions are OK because they are about reasonable topics. Some of them have been closed to keep the answers in one place and to prevent polling. The newer resource request questions are generally subsets of these, and can be moved there — which is why we close them.

You are welcome to come back to the site after 14 days if you can address the above issues.

Regards, Manishearth Physics Stack Exchange moderator

My response

sent Apr 22 at 8:56

1.Since the moderator elections, questions about study material and references get rigorously closed for SE political reasons as soon as they appear on the main page with zero tolerance.

People, who get their questions closed for said in 1. political reasons are often not aware of the ongoing meta discussions about the corresponding SE policies.

So I pointed them to these meta discussions below the closed study material / reference questions such that they can state their opinion in the discussion too, if they disagree with this SE policy as it is currently enforced by the dominant moderators on Physics SE. They have the reight to express their opinion too and as they dont look on meta and chat, they have to be more actively invited to take part in these discussion.

The community of physicists has never agreed on the recent change of the community conensus concerning study material / reference questions, which was respected by the moderators up to the last elections last year. The dominant moderators are enforcing the new policies by means of an iron fist without the community of physicists ever having approved them.

So pointing out the ongoing meta discussions about the study material / reference policies below the corresponding main page questions which get unilaterlaly and fast closed is NOT spaming the site but important to secure that people who are badly affected by the changed policies can express their opinion in the corresponding meta discussions too.

Therefore I officially challenge Manishearths decision to ban me for just pointing out the relevant meta discussions to people who are negatively affected by the policies discussed there. This is NOT spaming the site but showing people where they can take part and express their opinion in the discussion too. And I protest against the attitude of the dominant moderators to suppress and now even eliminate people from the site who disagree with the SE policies as they are currently enforced and want to change them or their application on Physics SE.

I will write an email to the team too.

Manishearths answer my response:

Dont worry,

I will test now if I can get technical theoretical questions at Quora answered too (at least I know how LaTex works there), and if it pans out I will stay there until I and some others are able to start a new physics site somewhere, which is moderated by the local community of physicists instead of being governed by external rules invented by peole who are not physicists.

The kind of questions about topics I would like and appreciate are no longer popular here anyway. Physics SE makes me no longer happy (on the contrary) since the horrible things happend before the last moderator elections.

Bye, for I dont know how long

My take on this

After having had too much (!) time to calm down, I agree that the comment I used was a bit over the top, it would have been enough to just say for example "there is an ongoing meta discussion about the policies concerning such questions [link]" to make people aware of the relevant meta discussions. However I would strongly disagree with banning me or other people just for pointing out relevant meta discussions if the coresponding issue comes up on the main page ( I have seen other people, including moderators doing this), or just for disagreeing with policies and rules, speaking their mind concerning SE political issues, etc...

In my opinion, questioning or challenging the appropriateness of rules, policies, moderator actions or yes, even more generally the accordance of the actions of certain moderators with the will and needs of the physics SE community, should not have negative consequences like bans and other punishments.

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You missed a part; your reply to my second message is mislabelled as my reply to yours (which is missing). – Manishearth 2 days ago
Regarding your last para, you know that's not the reason. Refer to my reply to your reply on the same thread. If you don't have the link anymore, here it is: physics.stackexchange.com/users/message/97 (only visible to you and mods) – Manishearth 2 days ago
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I would say Manishearth displayed good judgement in suspending you for seven days. The comments on the main page are there to improve questions and answers for the benefit of the community reading them. You've made your political views clear in your profile, yet that isn't enough for you, is it? – Larry Harson 2 days ago
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For someone who is new to this site, I don't mind the political views on his personal profile, obviously there are politics involved and I want to know about them. – Isopycnal Oscillation yesterday
@IsopycnalOscillation the meta page here deals with the way the site is run. There's no need to spam it elsewhere, especially on the main page. – Larry Harson yesterday
@LarryHarson: As I've mentioned elsewhere, that wasn't the reason for suspension :/ – Manishearth yesterday
Dilation can you edit your post so it's easy to read without scrolling? – Magpie 9 hours ago
@Magpie I have fixed it. – Dilaton 5 hours ago

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