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What game engines do sims use?? (self.simracing)

submitted by True_Racer

After doing some research on KartKraft I found out that they us the Unreal tournament game engine which surprised me a lot but got me thinking what other sim us FPS game engines or do they always develop their own ones. Also is this a normal thing that i just never noticed as im not to informed in this regard or is this a new concept

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[–]I_see_your_value_nowG25+5GPXM, rF2+SCE+AC+DiRT: Rally 12 points13 points  (117 children)

rFactor, rFactor 2, Race07 (and presumably R3E) and Stock Car Extreme use ISImotor.

Project CARS uses an engine called Madness. Apparently Madness was used for the Shift games, however I read on a forum that the current Madness engine (as used in PCars) was derived from ISImotor, and isn't the same as the one in Shift.

Assetto Corsa was going to use Unity, but it was a pain to work with, so they use an in house engine.

Codemasters' F1 2015 use the EGO 4.0 engine. F1 2014, 2013, Grid 2 & Autosport and Dirt Rally use EGO 3.0.

iRacing also uses it's own in house engine.

[–]TheSturmovik(iRacing, Assetto Corsa, NR2003) 7 points8 points  (114 children)

I'm pretty sure iRacing is a derivation of NR2003's engine, which was built by Papyrus.

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" 3 points4 points  (112 children)

Well, yes... iRacing is pretty much an updated NR2003. Same company.

[–]TheSturmovik(iRacing, Assetto Corsa, NR2003) 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well what I meant is that the connection might not be clear since iRacing is a separate company from Papyrus. But yes, you're right.

[–]billyjack2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually it has been noted many times by staff that no code from nr03 exists in the code base of iracing anymore... and I think that has been for a couple years now.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -1 points0 points  (109 children)

Which is why the physics in iRacing are so outdated and shit, especially with the road racing feel

[–]welded_sheepGCSE,AC,IRACING,RSRBR 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Shush.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -1 points0 points  (7 children)

No I don't think I will thanks

The fact that iRacing charges so much money for a game engine that is essentially 12 years old is a joke at this point. It drastically needs an update. It's a shame they've pretty much monopolised the userbase, because if sims like rFactor2 and GSCE had the userbase they did, iRacing would be left in the dust as an inadequate, outdated sim.

[–]sfwsuperior 0 points1 point  (5 children)

iRacing trades on the quality of the multiplayer experience, which you must admit is second to none. It kind of proves that all the hyper nerdy accuracy in the world doesn't mean much if all you're doing is hotlapping against ghosts.

[–]True_Racer[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I second this graphics will always be second to gameplay in my book

[–]tasygamer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Who is hotlapping against ghosts.

It is kind of the problem when you live in a bubble and forget to look outside every now and again.

Me and a bunch of mates get together for a Prac/Qual/Race session x2 3-5 nights a week. We get a fair few come in and say hi and in fact, I've added another half dozen guys this week to steam.

I paid $80 3 years ago for this feature and it's still paying me back. How much are you in the hole?

Yes the Multiplayer is king at iracing. But that's all it has. I'd rather race a realistic car than race people in an unrealistic game.

Maybe you are different!

[–]sfwsuperior 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm glad you have mates who race in AC. I race many of the people I know on iRacing... takes all types I guess?

It is expensive. For sure. I've probably dropped about $300 so far in the 2+ years I've been a member. I try to minimize the cost by only buying during sales like Black Friday. I have a lot of content now, and I really enjoy the scheduled seasons of racing / ranking. I treat it more like a hobby, and less like a game, I guess is how I justify the cost. Like a membership to a racing club where they supply the cars / tracks / and seasonal organization. I'm slowly climbing the ranks, and trying pretty hard to improve my skills...

...which brings me to realism. I understand iRacing is not considered "realistic." I race rFactor 2 and I can clearly feel the difference. But in both scenarios I am sitting in a chair in front of my computer. I love how realistic modern racing sims are, but I think when people start to focus on that too much and ignore the full context of the racing experience... they're kind of fooling themselves.

I guess what I'm saying is that iRacing is definitely "real enough" at least for my taste.

[–]tasygamer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure. Um, not AC btw. It's a pile of shit.

I'm glad you took the time to say that. My reply was to a short sighted statement. The response is obviously from someone who knows what he talks of. Sometimes a rarity around here.

From my perspective, same deal. It's a very serious hobby. The sessions are not play but ferocious battles on the absolute edge. Thats what I miss from iRacing.

It's too controlled and sedate and lacking of individual personality. You essentially master the game, not the art of driving and that's why I think it is not value for money.

As Dale Jr said, he had to quit because it was introducing too many bad habits in him.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've always conceded the service itself is fantastic. Assetto Corsa has such shit online play at the moment but the best handling, and rFactor 2 has the best simulation experience.

But you can't market it as "AS REAL AS IT GETS" when the physics model is as shit as it is, and you're putting in the Monza oval (last used in the 30s) - BACKWARDS, with a 'smoothed over' laser scan, to keep the NASCAR kiddies happy.

It shouldn't stand to reason that because iRacing is difficult to drive (because of the shitey handling) that it's realistic. Driving cars is easy. Driving them fast is what's hard.

[–]subzero800 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's a shame they've pretty much monopolised the userbase

What do you mean by this?

It drastically needs an update.

It's constantly updated...you have no clue what you're talking about.

iRacing has the most robust, continuous and effortful development of any of the sims out there. They're constantly updating and improving the physics, tire model, netcode, graphics and car models. The physics and the force feedback are constantly being tweaked with new features added to the sim. It's not outdated, it's not inadequate, it's the best sim there is out there.

[–]seaweedukG27 + CSP V3s, iRacing/AC/LFS/RF2 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I guess that must be the reason that it's the most populated sim racing game online.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -1 points0 points  (2 children)

No, it's the most popular because it models NASCAR so well. There's no denying that

Huge American market = huge marketing = huge playerbase

Use your brain.

[–]seaweedukG27 + CSP V3s, iRacing/AC/LFS/RF2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's only popular because of NASCAR, thanks I got a good laugh out of that. Man I hope you are trolling, its depressing when you see people who could genuinely be as stupid as this.

I hope the mods shadowban you, you're going on my ignore list regardless. Your comments here show you clearly haven't even played the game enough to even understand what it is and isn't simulating. I don't know why you have so much anger towards the game or its payment model, but I am happy that it stops idiots like you from playing it.

[–]True_Racer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have never seen such a perfectly orchastrated comeback. Well done sir well done

[–]tasygamer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Same reason boybands are the most popular! MMOs are popular, no denying that. That doesn't make it a sim, nor does it make it a good one.

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" -1 points0 points  (94 children)

Except they're not. It's pretty sad that you spend your time here solely complaining about iRacing. You either haven't tried it in years or just don't know how to control a car.

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[–]MC_Dickie#death_to_iRacing 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Lol, funny that, cos iRacing is shit, go ask a pro privately and if they trust you enough that you wouldn't publish their shit publically they'll tell you its garbage.

It's a sim that fakes modelling tyre wear for one for two the physics generally are very bizarre, which is proved 10 fold with the 4wd RUF.

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Really? Because a lot of the practice sessions I go in have real drivers in them practicing for that week's real race.

[–]bduddy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Drivers have been known to practice with EA NASCAR games. No game will give them anything close to real driving, they're just learning the track.

[–]tasygamer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Same with ISI sims, got a point?

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" -1 points0 points  (1 child)

No, I don't have a point. Apparently you can't read, because I'm refuting the other guy's point that "it's old so it must be bad hurr durr". Let's stop the circlejerk here and stop crying because you don't like paying for what you get.

[–]tasygamer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can have that attitude if you like. Brother, we are sim racers. We want the best!

It's so clear you have bought into the ecosystem, without much lateral thought. I 'm guessing it must be a bit of a shock for you to read that what you believe is not true.

You can circlejerk all you like, but until you can back any of it up with you know, just a fact or two.

I don't need the facts by the way. I have done the research, I do have the experience, and I understand the programming.

You however, do need to some of the above.

It's not about just old, its about being old, outdated, non-progressive, missing, lacking, empty!

But at least you can race people right, like you can't in any other sim!

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -2 points-1 points  (86 children)

I know how to control a car

Real cars don't swap ends at 30mph in a hairpin.

Real cars tires degrade as well as heat up. They also stick to the track under low load. Real tires can also guide the car on grass.

I find it funny that people always say the same things - "You haven't played it in years". I renewed my subscription in May to see if anything improved. If anything it feels worse than before. Why would I continue to subscribe if it feels so fucking bad?

Just stick to your guns and keep paying your subscription fee like a good little boy. You (and a considerable amount of other idiots) seem to think a game engine optimised that's soley based on oval racing and how Stock Cars handle is the superior sim when it comes to road racing in a variety of different spec series.

"Oh your back end stepped out more than 5 degrees of throttle in a hairpin at 40mph? Yeah you ain't catching that, I don't care how much opposite lock you apply in your FRONT ENGINED LONG WHEELBASE CAR"

Oh but hey, it was my fault for not spotting that instantanious slide coming through that mushy front end feeling the FFB is delivering me, right? Well fuck me sideways

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" 2 points3 points  (84 children)

Has some of the best FFB in my opinion and I think you're doing it wrong somewhere along the line. My back end would never step out going that slow. And it uses the same engine, yes, but the physics were done from the ground up. iRacing feels nothing like NR2003.

And I'd assume rFactor 2 and GSCE are both shit as well because their engines are from 2005?

There's a reason so many people use iRacing. Quality of racing is #1 and the price keeps clueless people like you off the track.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -3 points-2 points  (83 children)

rFactor 2 and GSCE both simulate more variables of a motor car than iRacing, hands down.

rFactor 2 simulates

  • flat spots

  • dirt on tires

  • dynamic track surface

  • tire deformation

  • degradation

  • brake temperature

  • Chassis Flex (I mean, really?)

  • Four Wheel Drive

  • Dynamic Weather

  • Dynamic Time cycle, which changes temperatures of the track.

  • Damage modelling

  • Aerodynamic forces (flip an F1 car over and you'll see this)

iRacing simulates

  • Tire heat

  • Primitive damage modelling

I think you need to do the math here. ISI's engine might be 'old' but it has the room and flexibility to simulate these variables, which makes the game a simulator in the truest sense. There's a reason real racing teams use the ISI engine as a base for their simulators aswell. Tell me a time when you saw a Formula 1 simulator using iRacing as it's base?

I'm not saying the ISI engine is perfect. It isn't. But it's a damn sight further down the line than something I pay $300 for the content for, and $10 monthly to actually use, and actually represents the era we should be in.

In terms of simulating what real cars do (we are racing SIMS after all), iRacing has no legs to stand on. So maybe put the circle jerk down for a moment and actually evaluate what you race? Instead of clinging to the idea it's so great because PPL PLAY IT ALOT and because you threw so much cum stained money at it?

Also while I'm here -

Has some of the best FFB in my opinion

Yeah I think you need to play other sims and put down iRacing for 2 months and come back to it. It's like pushing wet spaghetti through a marshmellow. The force feedback is mushy and shit. There is no front end feel.

You clearly

just don't know how to control a car.

[–]SirBensalotiRacing | CSW + CSPv2 | 3x 24" 0 points1 point  (81 children)

You obviously left a lot out at the top there. "Primitive" damage modeling? What the hell is the official basis of "primitive"? iRacing is the only online racing simulator around. That's a fact. You don't have anything else simulating a race weekend correctly with fair rankings like iRacing does.

iRacing has flat spots, dirt on tires, dynamic track, tire deformation, DX11 (dynamic weather/time) all coming this year. Even freakin marbles. It also already has tire wear, four wheel drive, brake temp, oil temp, engine wear, very advanced aero forces, blah blah whatever else you decide to claim it doesn't have.

You obviously have some force feedback setting wrong, sounds like dampening. Mine is perfectly clean. I also have experience in real life and in many other sims - rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, GSCE, RRRE, LFS, and I still come back to iRacing.

You don't have traction when driving at the limit in real life. Watch any GoPro footage of a driver and you'll see him constantly fighting the car and countersteering trying to control it. iRacing nails that. Not many other sims do.

Maybe, seeing as you don't know half of iRacing's features, you should try it again. Work your way out of the bottom split while you're at it.

[–]MC_Dickie#death_to_iRacing 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Ahh, I get it now, you are mistaking a simulation for a iRacings racing service.

iRacing does NOT have flat spots, dirt on tyres or tire deformation, it's impossible to even implement that with the limitations of the dinosaur game engine they have.

iRacing, for the cost of it all ESPECIALLY, do a piss poor job of simulation. You have no right to defend it, least of all defend it with shit that isn't true such as tire-def and flat spots.

From my knowledge iRacing have never even said that flat spots are modelled, so basically you're just making up false shit to support your argument which clearly deep down you know is undefendable [otherwise you wouldn't be making shit up].

Face reality, to F1 teams use iRacing to train up? No. What they do use is the rFactor pro licensed simulation software. Such as McLaren who are noted to have one of the best simulation rigs in F1

The fact you had to make shit up clearly suggests you actually don't know what you're talking about at all, and then ontop of that you probably don't know WHAT to feel from a simulation or what you ARE feeling, and mistake immersion for simulation.

[–]jonthedoorsyou know iRacing is a waste of money right -5 points-4 points  (71 children)

Bottom split, hahahaa

You think you're better than me? What are you going to do? Challenge me to a race and then flake out like everyone else who's done that in the past? Go on, I fucking dare you. I'm still waiting on /u/332i, the fucking loser who challenged me back in October and said he'd "kick my teeth in", so join the fucking queue.

Get real son. For someone who says the following -

You don't have traction when driving at the limit in real life. Watch any GoPro footage of a driver and you'll see him constantly fighting the car and countersteering trying to control it. iRacing nails that.

No, it doesn't. When I countersteer a slide in iRacing, I'm not countersteering to the point where the grip bites again, I'm throwing the wheel the other way in random movements, hoping it'll stop sliding, because I can't feel what's happening.

But oh no, it must be my wheel, which works absolutely fine on other sims.

By the way, the game doesn't have tire wear. The tires just get hotter and hotter through the race, and you lose grip (in a really horrible way, might I add) So it only models heat. I also don't see how they can introduce marbles into the game, because the tires don't degrade. Maybe eggs to cook breakfast on your 'well used' tires though, which will still have a fresh tread because it only models heat

[–]subzero800 0 points1 point  (0 children)

iRacing does simulate chassis flex...again you have no clue what you're talking about.

[–]Lryder2k6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To each their own I suppose. I've always thought the FFB in iRacing was the absolute best I've ever used, even back when it first came out of beta. People used to call it iceRacing because of what they felt was unforgiving physics, but even in that period of the game I never had any issue pushing the cars hard and saving them when needed because the FFB was so damn good.

Way too many people try iRacing, find out that they're completely off the pace, and start blaming the physics and FFB rather than admitting to themselves that they're nowhere near as good at driving as they thought. Not saying this is the case with you specifically, but it does happen.

[–]Mcc457 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GPL, NR series, Indy Car and iRacing are all built off the same engine, I think

[–]True_Racer[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Noob question; with all thise sims running isi engine what seperates them after that? Just how pretty they look and or the dif tracks/cars. ....

[–]I_see_your_value_nowG25+5GPXM, rF2+SCE+AC+DiRT: Rally 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The content is different for all of them. rFactor 2 has the most accurate physics engine, and lots of other stuff like a very clever tyre model, actual track rubbering and weather systems.

Stock Car Extreme is the most complete sim available (IMO), it has a great car and track selection (albeit a few unknown ones).

rFactor 1 and SCE are built on an older version of the ISImotor engine, so the graphics aren't great. rFactor 2 looks nicer as it's on a newer version of the engine.

[–]djfil007GT3v2+CSRelite/3x24"BenQ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Unreal Engine is used everywhere. I've got a skiing game, fishing game and eSport (supraball) that all use Unreal Engine.

isi's proprietary engine ISImotor is used in loads of sims

Assetto Corsa is custom built by Kunos.

Same with Codemasters and their EGO engine, it's custom made by Codemasters for their titles.

[–]True_Racer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks and noted

[–]Evo_247 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Fairly certain the Codemasters engine was used for Operation Flashpoint games - So one example of it working the other way around to

[–]AshMcConnellORC Developer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My sim (ORC) uses OGRE as the graphics engine (+ bespoke physics engine + fmod (sound) + raknet (networking)). gRally also uses OGRE (although I think they have a Unity3d version too)