Eurozone crisis live: German parliament approves Greek package - as it happened

• Bundestag passes second aid package by 496 votes to 90, with 5 abstentions.
Angela Merkel admits there's no guarantee Greek package will work
• Follow the debate, from 2pm
Spanish deficit blow
Tabloid paper Bild: Stop the madness
• Campaign says "Give Greece a Chance"
Today's agenda

Angela Merkel in the Bundestag debate on Greece's second aid package.
Angela Merkel: No 100% guarantee Greek package will work, but alternatives would be far worse.

9.43pm: The Greek government quickly responded to S&P's downgrade to Selective Default (see previous post), saying that it will have no impact on its banking sector.

It added that it expects to be rerated upwards once its creditor debt swap is over. Assuming the swap is successful, of course....

Generally, the news of the Eurozone's first official selective default was greeted with little surprise tonight, as Michael Casey of Dow Jones/WSJ pointed out on Twitter:

(ps - that really is it. Good night againm folks: GW)

9.31pm: Just in case anyone's still reading...Standard & Poor's just cut its credit rating on Greece to "selective default", or SD.

In a statement tonight, S&P explained that the move followed the Greek government's decisiont to add "collective action clauses" to its bonds. They give Athens the authority to force bondholders to take part in its debt restructuring, if they declined to take a voluntary haircut on their loans.

S&P said:

We lowered our sovereign credit ratings on Greece to 'SD' following the Greek government's retroactive insertion of collective action clauses (CACs) in the documentation of certain series of its sovereign debt on Feb. 23, 2012.

The effect of a CAC is to bind all bondholders of a particular series to amended bond payment terms in the event that a predefined quorum of creditors has agreed to do so. In our opinion, Greece's retroactive insertion of CACs materially changes the original terms of the affected debt and constitutes the launch of what we consider to be a distressed debt restructuring. Under our criteria, either condition is grounds for us to lower our sovereign credit rating on Greece to 'SD' and our ratings on the affected debt issues to 'D'.

S&P also said that it would raise Greeces' rating back to CCC if it successfully completes the PSI, or Private Sector Involvement, debt exchange.

However, should the deal still falter, the agency warned that "we believe that Greece would face an imminent outright payment default"....

8.05pm: Time for a closing summary.

The German parliament has given its approval to Greece's second rescue package. MPs in the Bundestag voted the plan through by 496 votes to 90, with 5 abstentions. During the debate, Angela Merkel warned that Europe would face dire consequences if the Greek deal was blocked. However, she was criticised by opposition leaders, and a small number of her own MPs rebelled.

Spain admitted that its deficit soared above target last year. At 8.5% of GDP, Madrid's government was nowhere near its target of 6%. The poor figures may bolster its case for less onerous fiscal targets.

Opposition to the Greek plan gathered pace in Germany today, before the debate. Tabloid newspaper Bild called the package "madness" and urged MPs to block it. Angela Merkel's own interior minister had fanned the flames by arguing that Greece would be better off quitting the euro – comments that were criticised by a Greek minister.

Proposals for German tax officers to be sent to Athens caused alarm in Greece. Athenians told us that the plan was unacceptable.

Europe's bailout fund was put on negative watch by Standard & Poor's. S&P made the move after concluding that other European countries will not offer new credit guarantees to fill the void left by France, following the loss of its AAA rating in January.

Greek businessmen began a counter-attack on criticism of the country. A campaign called "Give Greece a Chance" ran adverts in many newspapers in recent days, insisting that Greeks were largely hard-working, tax-paying individuals.

In the bond markets, Italy sold debt at its lowest borrowing costs since September 2010. European stock markets ended lower, though, with fears over the oil price pushings shares down. The FTSE 100 finished 19 points lower.

Thanks for reading, and your comments (particularly some very helpful corrections during the debate!). My colleagues will be back tomorrow morning. Goodnight!

Live blog - Spanish flag

7.50pm: Some important late news from Spain. While Angela Merkel was pushing the Greek package through the Bundestag, Spain produced shocking deficit figures showing that it barely managed to cut its deficit at all last year.

Giles Tremlett, our reporter in Madrid, has the details:

Spain missed its EU-set deficit target by miles last year, with budget minister Cristobal Montoro revealing that it was 8.5% of GDP – compared to a target of 6 percent.

That was barely 0.8 percentage points down on the previous year, with out-of-control regional governments failing to cut their joint deficit at all.

This is dire news for a country already entering the second part of a double dip recession – and with unemployment at 23% Prime minister Mariano Rajoy, whose conservative People's party took power in December, has pledged to meet a 4.4% deficit target this year – which will require a total adjustment of some €45bn to €50bn. Income tax hikes and cuts earlier this year will acheive just €15bn of that. A sales tax hike now looks certain, but ferocious spending cuts also seem inevitable.

Rajoy's government has been lobbying for the EU to change its deficit target for this year. These figures may persuade hardliners in Brussels to ease up. Government sources have told me that they have identified a number of EU officials who are blocking their attempts to have the deficit target softened.

7.21pm: The long-running question of whether Greece has officially defaulted has moved another step closer to being resolved.

ISDA (the International Swaps and Derivatives Association) has announced this evening that its determinations committee has been asked "a question relating to the Hellenic Republic". It will announce at 5pm on Wednesday whether it wil accept this question or reject it.

The question relates to the 53% haircut that Greek bondholders will take on their loans. Will that plan trigger Greek credit-default swaps?

There's a statement on its website with a bit more information.

The issues around Greek CDS contracts is rather complicated, but the good news is that Lisa Pollack of FT Alphavill did a great two-part (1 and 2) post on this last week.

6.55pm: Here's a video clip of Angela Merkel's speech to the Bundestag, in which the chancellor insisted that the Greek rescue package must be approved.....

Link to this video

...but admitted that there was no 100% guarantee it would resolve the crisis.

6.39pm: Open Europe, the think tank, has a great picture this evening of the document handed to German MPs, which explains the second Greek bailout package.

The paperwork ran to 726 pages, and was only handed to MPs over the weekend. Not, perhaps, enough time to fully digest the details and implications of the €130bn package, including details of various possible bond swaps, and the impact on Greece's debt sustainability.

6.31pm: Helen Pidd and Rupert Neate's story about the Bundestag vote is now live, here.

6.17pm: On the streets of Greece, my colleague Rupert Neate has found plenty of public animosity to Germany today.

The news that Germany might dispatch tax collectors to Athens to assist with revenue collection has angered many. Niki Fidaki, a computer scientist, told Rupert that:

It's disgusting....They shouldn't be ordering us about.

Fidaki acknowledged that Greece needs to be reformed, but argued that the troika are missing the obvious target - the rich:


The people that have the money are the ones that don't pay. The normal people pay their taxes. But the rich don't pay...they have the money to avoid it. If I don't pay my taxes I would go to jail....If I become rich I would find a way not to pay.

Businessman Simeon LeFineviotis agreed that anti-German sentiment was on the rise in Athens:


There is bad feeling towards Germany. It is like someone coming into your house telling you how to live your life. No, don't make your coffee like that - do it like this. Don't sit on your chair that way - sit up straight.

And regular blog reader James Wilkins says that today's Bundestag vote will being no relief to Greece:


Living in Greece is like living in death row. You know that, bar a miracle, it (default) will happen. You just don't know when it will happen and how painful it is going to be. And what has been decided in the Bundestag today makes no difference to the final outcome. And just as in death row justice is doubtful.

Many families who never had debts are now destitute because of the Troika's measures. They are being punished because they are being held to account for more than €100,000 which they, theoretically, owe the world (around €38,000 per person ) This is in large part due 18 months of the EU prevarication during which time compound interest plus the rating agencies have caused the debt to multiply.

It is not possible, and if it were it would be self defeating, to screw more money out of poor Greeks.

5.48pm: Here's a picture of Angela Merkel taking part in this afternoon's ballot.

Angela Merkel casts her ballot Photograph: John Macdougall/AFP/Getty Images

As usual, the chancellor was surrounded by plenty of supporters, with several seemingly keen to make sure she cast her vote correctly.

5.36pm: There's more than a little confusion on the news wires about whether Angela Merkel triumphed without the votes of the German opposition in the Bundestag.

As mentioned at 4.41pm, Merkel's coalition needed 311 votes for absolute victory, and controls 330 seats, so a rebellion of 20 MPs would have left the chancellor relying on the opposition.

We initially thought that Merkel had achieved the 'Chancellor's majority" but there are now suggestions from Germany that several of her own side missed the vote through illness.

The latest word is that Merkel got 304 votes from her own coalition parties, out of 591 votes cast (that's via Linda Yueh of Bloomberg):

So she fell short of the absolute majority, but would still have won the vote if the opposition parties had voted the other way.

[Full disclosure - this blog entry had been tweaked a few times]

5.22pm: Just in – Standard & Poor's has revised the European Financial Stability Facility outlook to negative.

That follows its decision to downgrade France (one of the EFSF's main backers) from AAA to AA+. The EFSF had lost its own AAA rating following that move, but S&P had initially left the Facility's outlook as 'developing'....

In a statement, S&P said it had made the move after concluding that:

Credit enhancements sufficient to offset what we view as the reduced creditworthiness of European Financial Stability Facility are not likely to be forthcoming.

The EFSF is used to finance Greece, Ireland and Portugal since they took IMF-EU-ECB rescue packages. A lower credit rating would push up its borrowing costs (although the EFSF should be replaced by the ESM this summer).

5.02pm: There's little reaction to the German vote in the City, where the London stock market had closed for the day shortly before the result came in.

The euro had strengthened during the debate, perhaps as it became clear that there wouldn't be a sizeable rebellion against Greece's €130bn package. From $1.336 during Merkel's speech, the euro is now trading at $1.341 against the US dollar.

There's still scepticism in the foreign exchange world, though:

4.51pm: From Berlin, my colleague Helen Pidd comments:

Angela Merkel has persuaded the German parliament to ratify the second Greek bailout, despite admitting the plan to rescue Greece was risky and could yet fail.

"The way ahead for Greece is long and is, truthfully, not without risks," the German chancellor told the Bundestag, the German parliament, before the vote on Monday. "No one can give a 100% guarantee of success."

Helen also cites one of Merkel's best quotes fom the speech.


The founding fathers of the EU built the European Union with strength, ideas and courage. They learned lessons from bloody centuries of suffering in Europe and built a Europe anchored in peace and freedom. They didn't do that just for themselves, but also for future generations.

Now it is up to us – with strength, ideas and courage – to write the 21st century chapter of European history Not just for us, but also for our children and grandchildren.

Live blog: news flash newsflash

4.41pm: The votes are in, and it's a big win for the German government.

The Greek package has been approved with 496 votes in favour, 90 against, and five abstentions.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that Angela Merkel did not suffer a major rebellion from her own coalition. The left-wing Die Linke party has 76 MPs, so if they all opposed the bill then that would leave 19 votes against/abstentions from other parties.

Update: As explained earlier, Merkel's coalition had 330 seats in the Bundestag and needed 311 votes for victory, so if 19 MPs did rebel, that would have put her on the knife-edge for victory with/without opposition support....

4.29pm: Voting is taking place now....

4.21pm: Two members of Angela Merkel's coalition have attacked the Greek deal in the last few minutes, as the Bundestag debate heads towards the vote.

Klaus-Peter Willsch of the Christian Democratic Party told the Bundestag debate that he fears his party is taking the wrong decision. He said he could not support the package for Greece, saying he believed it was 'economically wrong'.

Frank Schäffler of the Free Democratic Party (the FDP, the junior partner in the administration) was even more critical. He said nothing had improved in Greece, indeed everything has got worse.

Frank Schäffler of the FDP, speaking in the Bundestag debate on 27 February 2012. Frank Schäffler of the FDP, speaking in the Bundestag debate on the Greek aid package on 27 February 2012. Photograph: Bundestag

Schäffler added that Germany should 'quit the eurozone', as Greek military spending is increasing. However, his speech received only isolated, lonely clapping, and Merkel appeared to deliberately pay him no attention.

4.06pm: The Greek aid debate is continuing in the German parliament, with individual MPs addressing the Bundestag. But there's an interesting development to flag up: the eurogroup of eurozone finance ministers will meet this coming Thursday at 2pm CET (1pm GMT) to "take stock" of Greece's progress since the deal agreed a week ago.

The meeting, called by eurogroup head Jean-Claude Juncker, will examine how the bond-swap with Greece's private creditors is progressing.

It will set the tone for a two-day EU summit that also begins on 1 March.

3.26pm: The chairwoman of the German Green party has criticised Angela Merkel for acting like a modern-day Margaret Thatcher.

Renate Künast of the Green party, in the Bundestag debate on Greece. Renate Künast of the Green party.

Renate Künast accused Merkel of playing the "Iron Lady", in her refusal to bow to criticism. She added that the chancellor is losing control of her cabinet, citing Hans-Peter Friedrich's suggestion that Greece should leave the euro.

Like Peer Steinbrück of the SDP, Künast said a financial transaction tax should be used to fund a growth-focused rescue package for Greece, and also called for a new Marshall Plan for the country.

3.17pm: More drama in the Bundestag. Gregor Gysi, head of socialist party Die Linke, has compared the Greek package to Germany's war reparations after the first world war.

Gysi told the Bundestag that:

You're giving Greece Versailles when it needs a Marshall Plan.

Several German MPs seemed shocked by the analogy, according to Open Europe which is also tracking the debate.


Historical note: the Treaty of Versailles was signed in 1919, and included very heavy penalties and restictions on Germany, which was held responsible for the conflict. The country lost territory and faced restrictions on its future armements, as well as a huge war reparations bill.

Rainer Brüderle of the FDP addressing the Bundestag, in a debate on Greece's second aid package. Rainer Brüderle of the FDP.

2.56pm: Now, Rainer Brüderle of the Free Democratic Party (FDP) (the junior party in Angela Merkel's coalition), is addressing the Bundestag – and rebutting Peer Steinbrück's call for a Plan B for Greece (see 2.48pm)

Brüderle dismissed the proposal of a new growth package for Greece funded by a transaction tax on the banks, arguing that Greeks do not need more money, they need structural reforms.

Brüderle also opposed the idea of increasing Europe's bailout fund, saying that investment in Greece must come from "private, not public sources".

2.52pm: Despite criticising Merkel, Peer Steinbrück pledged his party's support for the Greek package. It may be flawed, but the SDP will vote for it because the alternative is, as the chancellor herself warned, worse.

2.48pm: Peer Steinbrück proposed an alternative solution to the diet of austerity being handed to Greece.

He said his party would devise and implement growth programme for Greece & other Mediterranean countries. It would be funded by "a tax on financial transactions".

German opposition leader Peer Steinbrück in the Bundestag. Peer Steinbrück of the SDP.

2.40pm: German opposition leader MP Peer Steinbrück is laying into Angela Merkel's government.

Steinbrück, of the Social Democrats, told the Bundestag that the chancellor had been fixated on austerity and failed to grasp the scale of the challenge facing Europe, calling her crisis management "too little, too late".

Steinbrück condemned the fiscal adjustments being forced on Greece, saying "thumbscrews" would not fix the country's problems.

Steinbrück (who, like Merkel, has attracted some heckling) predicted that German MPs would soon be gathered in the chamber to discuss an increase in the EFSF and the ESM (despite Merkel's denial - see 2.26pm)

UPDATE: Many thanks to all those readers who kindly pointed out my error. Peer Steinbrück is not the German opposition leader. Now fixed.

Bundestag applauds as Angela Merkel completes a speech on the Greek rescue deal

2.28pm: Angela Merkel concluded her speech on a rousing note, telling the chamber that:

We Europeans are bonded to a common future.

And with that, she left the podium to loud applause that lasted almost a minute.

Now opposition leader Peer Steinbrück is responding.

2.26pm: Angela Merkel has reiterated her opposition to increasing Europe's bailout fund.

The chancellor told the Bundestag that there was "No need to increase EFSF & ESM funds."

That looks like a straight rebuff to the G20, which yesterday said that it would not provide more help to resolve the eurozone crisis until Europe itself has "reassessed" its own firepower.

Many other EU nations, including the Dutch, want the combined ESM/EFSF to be increased to €750bn, but Germany remains adamant that the €500bn limit should hold.

Merkel did say, though, that Germany will pay €11bn of its contribution to the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) this year, and could pay the second half of the bill in 2013. So, not suggestion that Germany would hold back on its commitments.

She also insisted that the aid promised for Greece would make the country more competitive. Austerity, though, cannot be avoided.

2.21pm: Angela Merkel has moved onto long-term solutions to the eurozone crisis.

She says it is essential that the fiscal compact [tougher budget rules across the eurozone] is rapidly ratified, and insists that closer political union will also restore confidence in the euro.

She also touches on the growth issue, saying that increased flexibility in the way that EU structural funds are spent could help promote growth and competitiveness.

2.14pm: Heckling! Angela Merkel was briefly distracted by chuntering from within the Bundestag after she said that she knows there are some peopel who think the Greeks should return to the drachma and quit the euro....

...her own interior minister, for starters.

But the Chancellor isn't put off her stride for long. She insists that rejecting the bailout would certainly cause great damage, affecting Portugal and Ireland and adding to contagion across the region.

In essence, Merkel's message is:

Saving Greece is in Europe's interest and therefore in Germany's interest.

2.11pm: Merkel moves onto Greece, telling German MPs that the country has made progress in the last couple of years.

But she admits that the bailout is not without risks.

UPDATE: Here's the key quote from Merkel:

There is no 100% guarantee that the second bailout programme will succeed.

Angela Merkel in the Bundestag debate on Greece's second aid package. Chancellor Angela Merkel.

2.06pm: Chancellor Angela Merkel begins by telling German MPs that there is no single, one-off solution to the eurozone crisis.

The idea of a quick solution to the crisis is just an illusion, she says. But the consequences of failure are severe: The European Union will fail if the euro fails.

She tells the Bundestag that Europe is "united in agreement" over the causes of the crisis. Now, she insists, the EU must work together towards building a stable union. That, though, will take several years.

2.00pm: The debate in the Bundestag is starting right now.

You can watch it here on the Bundestag's web site.

1.50pm: Political developments in Greece – the minister responsible for the country's police, Christos Papoutsis, has resigned.

Not, though, in protest at the Greek rescue package, or because of the occasionally violent protests on the streets of Athens. Instead Papoutsis (whose official title is Citizen Protection Minister) is stepping down to run for the leadership of Pasok, the socialist party.

Associated Press reports:

Papoutsis, 58, will represent the traditionalist wing of the socialist party in the election. Vice-premier and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos is the favorite to win.

1.22pm: Time for a lunchtime roundup.

The German parliament is getting ready to debate the Greek financial package agreed last week. The debate will begin at 2pm GMT / 3pm CET, and politicians in Berlin believe Angela Merkel should win the vote comfortably. But a warning from Germany's interior minister that Greece should leave the euro has added to the tension, and prompted a counter-blast from Athens.

German tabloid Bild has urged the Bundestag to oppose the Greek deal. The newspaper said it was time to 'Stop the madness'.

European stock markets have fallen. Traders blamed fears over the high oil price, and disappointment that more progress wasn't made at last weekend's G20 meeting.

Greek businessmen have begun a campaign to encourage people to "Give Greece a Chance". Full-page adverts, and a website, insist that Greece is committed to economic recovery.

In the bond markets, Italy's borrowing costs fell to their lowest level since September 2010. The successful auction came as data showed Italian and Spanish banks have been buying record amounts of government debt.

Athens, Greece, during bailout talks Photograph: Oli Scarff/Getty Images Europe

1.05pm: If you're looking for something to read this lunchtime, can I recommend this piece by Megan Greene of Roubini Global Economics?

She just returned from her latest trip to Athens, and reports a "pronounced shift" in public attitudes to the crisis. Interestingly, people aren't just worried about themselves – they are concerned about the impact on the generations above or below them:


Every person has a story either about a pensioner who is forced to pay ever higher property taxes while his pensions are rapidly shrinking and prices continue to rise, or of a younger friend or sibling with multiple master's degrees who has had to work in call centres or cafés because there are no job openings commensurate with his experience....

Many of the Greeks with whom I spoke also expressed a visceral bitterness towards the troika. This underlies the epic breakdown in trust between the troika and Greece, which has recently been reflected in the discourse between the two sides as they have negotiated a second bailout. Troika representatives have clearly noted the antagonism with which they are met in Athens, as they have quadrupled the number of bodyguards in their entourages over the past year.

But despite the pain and anger, Greene still found that most Greeks "express desperation to stay in the eurozone".

The full article's here.

12.41pm: European stock markets have continued to slide, with the FTSE 100 now down 53 points, or 0.9% at 5881. The French and German markets are both down around 1.2%.

The word in the City is that last weekend's G20 meeting is pushing shares down as is the high oil price (see 8.24am).

That meeting didn't make much progress, with G20 leaders simply agreeing that the eurozone needs to find more money to address the crisis. The G20 communique pointed out that eurozone leaders will "reassess the strength of their support facilities in March" – ie, decide whether to merge the European Stability Mechanism and the European Financial Stability Fund and raise its ceiling above €500bn.

Elisabeth Afseth of Investec pointed out that this puts the ball firmly back into Germany's court:

Germany remains opposed to letting the EFSF and ESM run concurrently to their full capacity, with a change in stance likely to be required before any non-eurozone countries commit to providing additional funds.

Louise Cooper of BGC Partners suggests that investors have now become numbed to the latest twists in the eurocrisis (regular readers may know how they feel -- Halo 572 was in nostalgic mood this morning)

For some time American investors have taken the view that it is too time consuming trying to keep up with every development in the Eurozone crisis, that there are just not enough hours in the day to fully understand what is going on and therefore it is best to keep out or take very few positions.
Maybe European market players are also coming to same view.

12.20pm: The Greek package also needs to be approved by parliaments in the Netherlands and Finland; the Bundestag isn't the only hurdle left to cross.

Debate is due to start in the Netherlands parliament tomorrow. The deal should be approved, but there may be some political manoeuvring. As Reuters explains:

The Dutch government, a minority coalition between the Liberal and Christian Democrat parties, usually relies on the opposition Labour Party for support in such debates because its main ally, Geert Wilders' Freedom Party, strongly opposes bailouts for Greece and other eurozone peripheral economies.

We saw last week that the Dutch are also very concerned about the situation in Greece (finance minister Jan Kees de Jager called for a permanent troika presence in Athens), so the debate could be quite lively.

In the reader comments, IfigEusLannuon pointed out that the "Greece is Changing" campaign (see 9.06am) is targeting the Dutch audience:

Those guys paid for a full-page ad in this Sunday's Le Monde. Those are greek big businesses (CocaCola Hellenic, OTE, others according to Kathimerini) wanting to present Greece reforms in a positive way to the rest of Europe. The choice of languages for the website is indicative of the target: English, Deutsch and French, but also Nederlands, probably because Netherlands has a biggest share of euroseptics than other.

11.58am: Greek cultural & tourism minister Pavlos Yeroulanos has hit back at claims that Greece should leave the euro.

Yeroulanos told CNBC that such criticism could destroy the deal agreed last week, plunging Europe into a fresh crisis. He also appeared to take a swipe at German interior minister Hans-Peter Friedrich (who proposed making Greece an offer it couldn't refuse).

Yeroulanos said:

Germany needs the euro just as much as Greece does. They need to decide whether they will make a real commitment to the euro, which has been a great thing for the German economy.

We have taken some very important moves towards a stronger union, and then we see statements by people which undermine the steps that the EU made.

11.32am: Should Germany send tax officials to Greece?

We wouldn't normally presume to ask, but it emerged over the weekend that more than 160 German tax collectors have volunteered for possible assignments in Greece. Their mission, should Athens choose to accept them, would be to help the Greek authorities gather tax more efficiently.

There is historical precedent – after reunification, West German tax officials were dispatched to the East to help improve revenue collection. But as Norbert Walter-Borjans, finance minister for the state of North Rhine-Westphalia, conceded:

There was resistance then among some eastern Germans against western (tax collectors) but that's nothing compared to the reservations Greeks will have against Germans.

The full story's here and you can vote in this poll.

11.21am: More from Germany. This morning's Bild captures the mood of the nation, with the word STOP! splashed in huge letters across the front page.

Front page of Bild, Monday February 27, 2012.

Inside, Bild reports:

Today the German Bundestag will once again vote. €130bn is supposed to stop Greece going bust. Bild calls on all parliamentarians: don't carry on down this wrong path!

The tabloid has also asked ten top German economists (all men: one, Prof Dr Wolfgang Gerke, wearing an enormous bow tie) to explain the "Greek madness" (Helen Pidd reports)

Guardian Open Weekend: Helen Pidd Helen Pidd

11.17am: Angela Merkel is expected to cruise through this afternoon's vote in the German parliament on the second Greek bailout.

Around a dozen MPs are expected to rebel, but Merkel should still be able to rely on opposition votes, if needed.

Helen Pidd has the latest from Berlin ahead of the vote (expected around 4.30pm GMT):

Even the CDU's Wolfgang Bosbach, the most high profile of the dozen or so government rebels who will vote "no" today, has told reporters that he expects the vote to pass without Merkel having to rely on opposition support. But that doesn't mean the German cabinet is fully supportive of the plans to save Greece.

As reported earlier, the interior minister, Hans-Peter Friedrich, has become the first minister to say Greece would be better out than in the eurozone. The Süddeutsche Zeitung reports that Friedrich is not a lone dissenter. The left-leaving daily claims both the finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, and the economy minister, Philipp Rösler, are among those in the government who privately do not believe in the current strategy for keeping Greece from the brink. Neither are quoted in the front page story, which also claims the German chancellor is determined to avoid a Greek exit from the euro because of the deleterious knock-on effect it would have on the German economy and
beyond.

Among the German population, bailing out Greece is becoming ever more
unpopular, Helen adds:

A poll in Bild am Sonntag newspaper found 62% of Germans are against the €130bn rescue package while 33% are in favour. In a similar poll in September, 53% were opposed and 43% in favour.

11.03am: The German cabinet met this morning ahead of the Greek debate (which begins in around three hours time).

Angela Merkel's spokeman, Steffen Seibert, has briefed the media that the cabinet "fully backs the Greek proposal", and did not discuss the question of Greek exit from the euro (despite interior minister Hans-Peter Friedrich calling for a Grexit).

10.39am: Critics of the European Central Bank's policy of pumping liquidity into Europe's financial sector through low-cost three years loans may be interested in this:

Italy and Spain's banking sectors both spent record amounts buying up eurozone government debt last month. Spanish banks spent a total of €23.1bn on eurozone sovereign debt in January, with Italy's snapping up another €20.6bn.

The data doesn't show which country's debt they bought, but both Spanish and Italian debt has strengthened this year (as today's Italian auction showed). Megan Greene of Roubini Global Economics commented on Twitter that banks would generally have bought up their own national debt.

It's quite a trick -- the ECB lends huge amounts of euros at 1% to European banks, who snap up the loans and use the proceeds to buy higher-yielding bonds (Italian 10-year bonds, for example, yield 5.4% despite rising in value this year). The banks get a guaranteed profit, Europe's peripheral countries find willing buyers for their debt, and the ECB resists pressure to take more dramatic measures such as quantitative easing.

Not everyone is impressed, though. John Bennett, manager of the Henderson European Focus Trust, dubbed the plan "a bit of a Ponzi scheme" earlier this month.....

Live blog - Germany flag

10.33am: More government debt sale action -- Germany sold €2.545bn of 12-month bills at a yield of 0.0768% (very slightly higher, but still in 'ultra-safe' territory).

10.15am: The first results from this morning's government debt auctions are in -- and Italy has sold €8.75bn of six-month bills at a yield (the effective interest rate) of just 1.2%, down from 1.97% in January. That's the lowest level since September 2010.

Italy also sold €3.5bn of nine-month bills, at an average yield of 1.29%.

Some relief for Italy after this morning's poor business confidence survey, but it's hard to read too much into it, given how much ECB-funded liquidity is sloshing around the markets.

For a more sobering statistic, check out FTSE volatility index - which measures fear in the London stock market. It jumped by more than 10% this morning, which Josh Raymond of City Index says is a worrying sign:

9.59am: Europe may have dodged a second credit crunch, thanks to the €489bn of low-cost loans made by the European Central Bank last December.

That's the suggestion from the latest M3 money supply data from the ECB this morning (the broadest measure of money supply, including physical currency, savings accounts, and money in large and long-term reserves). Today's M3 data showed that money supply rose by 2.5% in January on an annual basis.

It also showed a small rise in lending to households, while loans to European firms stabilised.

With another splurge of cheap cash from Mario Draghiahem, ECB Long Term Refinancing Operation taking place later this week, economist are hoping that business and household lending will pick up. As Howard Archer of IHS Global Insight points out, that could prevent the ECB from cutting rates again next month:

The stabilization in Eurozone private loans and rise in money supply in January reinforces already strong belief that the ECB will keep interest rates at 1.00% at their March policy meeting, particularly given some recent improved survey data.

Even so, we still expect interest rates to be eventually trimmed from 1.00% to 0.75% as Eurozone economic activity remains soft overall and fragile.

Live blog - Italy flag

9.38am: Italian business confidence has slumped to its lowest level in 27 months.

Data released at 9am showed that Italian business morale fell by more than economists has expected in February, to 91.5, on national statistics body ISTAT's survey. It hasn't been lower since November 2009.

The data reinforces fears that the Italian economy will shrink for most of 2012. There's a fine graph here (by Reuters' Scott Barber), showing how business confidence is a good forward indicator of GDP.

In contrast, German business morale hit a seven-month high last week, as its business leaders took heart that the worst of the crisis was over.

9.22am: Helena Smith (who is supposed to be on a well-earned break) also reports from Athens that Greece is reeling from revelations that several politicians had added to the capital flight that has exacerbated the country's fiscal woes by transferring substantial deposits abroad in the last two years.

Helena says:

One MP is believed to have moved €1m euros to the UK just when the finance ministry was desperately trying to halt the flight in May last year. Of the €65bn euro whisked out of banks since late 2009 some €16bn ended up overseas, according to finance minister Evangelos Venizelos.

None of the MPs have as yet been identified, prompting the Greek media to demand that they step forward - starting with the man or woman of the "missing million."



Helena says it will be interesting to see if any of the so called offenders 'out themselves' by the time she returns from holiday next week. After all, she says, the latest campaign to win over public opinion (see previous post) makes the point that this is the chance to "create a new Greece. A modern, productive and creative Greece with a sustainable future in Europe."

9.06am: Over to Greece, where a new campaign called "Greece is Changing" has been launched, with full page adverts in many newspapers – including Germany daily papers.

Helena Smith, our correspondent in Athens, says the initiative shows that Greeks are determined to win over the hearts and minds of critics abroad. She explains:

Under the banner headline "Give Greece a chance", prominent Greek business people funding the campaign emphasised the sacrifices made over the last three years "by every Greek under the toughest austerity package in modern history."

And they insisted that debt-choked Athens was committed to reform, recovery and future growth despite the "dramatic impact" of such robust change on "the life of every Greek."

Give Greece a Chance - an advertising campaign launched this week.

As you can see above, the advert recognises that Greece faces further hardship, but also criticises the stereotypes that they say are unfairly pinned on Greeks.


We are hardworking, tax paying citizens unfairly labelled with sterotypes so easily handed out to Greeks today ... All we are saying is give Greece a chance.

Catchy, eh?

8.44am: Germany's interior minister has become the first member of Angela Merkel's cabinet to suggest Greece should leave the eurozone.

New German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich speaks at a press conference Hans-Peter Friedrich. Photograph: Soeren Stache/EPA

Hans-Peter Friedrich broke ranks in an interview with Der Spiegel, in which he says: "Greece's chances of regenerating and becoming competitive are definitely greater outside the eurozone than in."

Friedrich added:

I'm not talking about kicking Greece out, but to create incentives for a departure which the Greeks will find hard to pass up.

Our Berlin correspondent, Helen Pidd, reports that Germany's foreign minister swiftly rebutted Friedrich's comments:

Friedrich is one of the weaker ministers in the German government – he belongs to the CSU, the Bavarian sister party to to Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and isn't taken desperately seriously in Germany. Chances are, he was just flexing his muscles for the CSU's conservative supporters in Germany's rich south, most of whom are rabidly against the Greek bailouts.

Nonetheless, it cannot be comforting reading for the Greeks. As a Spanish colleague from El Pais put it to me, Friedrich's phrasing has sinister tinges of Marlon Brando's line in The Godfather: "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."

But Germany's foreign minister today brushed off all speculation about a Greek exit. "I don't understand the political speculation about a Greece outside the eurozone," Guido Westerwelle told Die Welt.

Live blog - market down

8.24am: European stock market have fallen in early trading.

The FTSE 100 dropped 30 points to 5905, a fall of around 0.5%. Other markets fell by similar amounts, with the German DAX and French CAC both down around 0.7%. This follows a lacklustre performance in Asia.

The recent rally in oil is still causing concerns, with traders saying the high prices could hamper the global economy. As Michael Hewson of CMC Markets explained, Europe is particularly vulnerable to an oil shock.

This surge in prices has raised concerns that it could choke off the recent improvement in US economic data, as well as make economic conditions in Europe worse than they already are, especially in the periphery, where Greece, Spain and Italy remain particular vulnerable to the Iranian oil embargo.

8.21am: Angela Merkel should win this afternoon's vote, but the big question is whether she suffers a significant rebellion.

Elements of Merkel's coalition government are unhappy about extending a second financial package to Greece. Last September, 15 deputies voted against the expansion of the European Financial Stability Fund.

It would only take a few more rebels to leave Merkel dependent on opposition votes – not a comfortable position for the chancellor. Her coalition controls 330 seats in the Bundestag, and needs 311 votes for victory.

Angela Merkel Photograph: Thomas Peter/Reuters

Members of Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party were vocal about their concerns over the weekend. As Reuters reported:

"Quite clearly the mood in Germany is turning against further rescues for Greece," Klaus-Peter Willsch, a leading dissident on Greek aid in Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU), said in an interview with Reuters on Sunday.

"But that's not surprising. This is all deja vu for the public. We've been promised all kinds of things that aren't fulfilled and then a few months later there's the need for another rescue package. The public's faith is fading fast."

An opinion poll published yesterday found that 62% of Germans oppose the new Greek deal.

Live blog: recap

8.04am: Here's today's agenda:

Today's debate in the Bundestag over Greek loan deal begins at 2pm GMT (3pm CET). Angela Merkel will open the debate, with a vote taking place later this afternoon.

Economics:
Eurozone M3 money supply data for January. 9am GMT / 10am CET
Italian business confidence for February - 9am GMT / 10am

Debt auctions due this morning:
Italy: €12.25bn of short-term bonds
Belgium: up to €2.9bn of long-term bonds.
Germany: €3bn of 12-month bills
France: Treasury bill sale

8.00am: Good morning, and welcome to our rolling coverage of the eurozone debt crisis.

Today, Germany will decide whether it supports the financial aid programme which was agreed by euro finance ministers a week ago. The vote takes place in the Bundestag (the lower house) this afternoon. The package is expected to be passed, but Angela Merkel may suffer a rebellion from her own side.

The vote is overshadowed by a warning from Germany's interior minister that Greece should quit the euro (of which more shortly here).

Elsewhere, we'll be looking at the ramifications of the G20 summit which ended in Mexico yesterday.

And in the bond markets Italy, Belgium, France and Germany are all holding debt auctions. With banks gearing up for another massive offer of cheap loans from the European Central Bank later this week, they are likely to go well. But we'll see....


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  • CaptainJustice

    27 February 2012 8:15AM

    For a true Guarnianista start, its all going to go Pete Tong.
    The Germans will probably blag it through, hacking off the majority of their people, but the Greeks .... They ain't gonna take it no more...

    Tits up by Friday

    The Great Predicto.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 8:21AM

    yes, the interior minister friedrich (CSU), the economics minister rösler (fdp) and the finance minister schäuble (CDU, the one who did the actual negotiation) have voiced lots of doubts, the first publically. It's basically Merkel holding them to this line, although she's got the Bundestag party organisations behind it too.

    There will be a revolt by some in all three coalition parties, and it'll be messy, and the SPD and Greens will, while voting with the government, make lots of noise about how awful the crisis management has been.

    Meantime, the Left will denounce it as all being for the benefit of the banks, and will vote against.

  • LancerRed

    27 February 2012 8:27AM

    The vote in the Bundestag is of little international relevance because it is going to pass anyways, with the major opposition parties (SPD and Greens) probably both voting with "yes". Nationally, it might be interesting because Angela Merkel might not get a majority from her own coalition's votes alone, but might have to rely on said opposition parties.
    The coalition has been looking very unstable for months...no actually it has never looked stable since it took power in 2009, with constant fighting between the three parties making it up (CDU, CSU and FDP). Only recently the FDP provoked Merkel by agreeing with the opposition's favoured candidate for federal president, Joachim Gauck, prematurely and publicly, before Merkel gave her approval. But Merkel will try to hold the coalition together by all means until the next elections in September 2013.

    Sadly, for the rest of Europe as well as Germany itself, this means that no bold moves and decisions are to be expected from Berlin until after those elections. The Salamitaktik (bit-by-bit) decisionmaking will continue.

  • CaptainJustice

    27 February 2012 8:30AM

    A more refined analysis than my 'Pete Tong' rant. This German/Greek thing is now pure theatre, no its like those old TV series like Star Trek, never any ending, no one gets back to base

    Greece needs to default and get out the euro, I can't see how this will do them any more harm than this current humiliation. I sense a huge amount of sympathy for the Greek people, who frankly, have been economically and democratically shafted.

  • OFFMYBACK

    27 February 2012 8:38AM

    The German taxpayer is against bailing out Greece.
    The German banks which stand to benefit from a Greek bailout are in favour.
    No one is in any doubt that the bankster lobby will win in Germany as it has everywhere else.

  • johnandanne

    27 February 2012 8:41AM

    If the Euro don't crash within a month it will crash the next crisis around. Political leaders and economists of the World listen to what the people are saying. Stop your abuse now.

  • Armstrongx15

    27 February 2012 8:44AM

    Akermann wants his cash and he has told the government what to do
    End off

  • shaun

    27 February 2012 8:49AM

    The IMF and the US are now asking for the "bailout" fund to be raised to one Trillion. This is not going to help Merkels position as the Greek bailout will already go directly to the Banks - not the Greek people. (Who are going to be obliged to pay tha Banks before the hospitals etc.)

    Obviously once a bailout is agreed - the Banks will try to get more and more at the expense of the European people as a whole, - as they have no ethics at all.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 8:52AM

    This German/Greek thing is now pure theatre, no its like those old TV series like Star Trek, never any ending, no one gets back to base. Greece needs to default and get out the euro,

    no, it's not pure theatre. A messy default is a very big, human tragedy, that wrecks lives. And the greek one would be much worse than a "normal" default, bad as they are, because:

    1. the european banking system is far more integrated. Argentina's depositors couldn't easily get their money out. The Greeks could, and in the case of the richer ones, already have.

    2. Those who haven't got their money out of the country have stashed a lot of euros under mattresses. Those euros would be the actual currency accepted, not any notional new drachma, which would take months to bring in anyway, in conditions of acute hardship and very widespread unrest.

    3. Greece is in the EU. Greek people could and would emigrate in large numbers (following the trail of their money, probably).

    Merkel is right. The consequences are just incalculable. And those british politicians opining wisely about "calmly planning for a default" are talking out of their behinds.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 8:56AM

    Akermann wants his cash and he has told the government what to do
    End off

    Ackermann (ex-CEO of Deutsche Bank) has indeed been travelling around giving speeches urging politicians to not abandon greece. He's also been very instrumental behind the scenes in the arm-twisting that led to the PSI haircut. By which the greek state's creditors lose 53% notional, about 73% total yield.

    It's the biggest (semi-) voluntary haircut, without a bankruptcy preceeding it, in history.

    It would be great if there was more acknowledgement of the fact. That bit of the bailout has worked pretty well.

  • Smithy23

    27 February 2012 8:59AM

    German parliament votes on Greek package

    German parliament votes on another derivatives bailout.

  • nursinggardener

    27 February 2012 9:01AM

    I live in Germany. At least 80% of germans dont want good money thrown after bad. This is money not given to Greece. The greek people have to pay it back with interest. The money goes to the private banks many of them german. These parasites who are living off the people of indebted countries and bleeding them dry. There will be a revolution in Greece because the question is who governs Greece and the IMF Euro puppet there now does not represent the Greek people who have nothing to lose now. I support the people of Germany and Greece who are both being squeezed to serve speculating elites. They took the risks and they should go bust. Greece should refuse to pay most of this money back because it was not used for the good of the country.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 9:02AM

    Good news from Greece: inquiries about greek MPs who transferred money abroad is expanding. Finance minister has now compiled a list of MPs who transferred more than 100000 euros.

    I find it a good development: for being accepted, any harsh austerity needs to be accompanied with fiscal justice. Ensuring there is no impunity for the political class is important.

  • Batcow

    27 February 2012 9:04AM

    "I'm not talking about kicking Greece out, but to create incentives for a departure which the Greeks will find hard to pass up."

    I thought that was the deal. Leave the Euro and you don't have to put up with another 10 years of humiliation by Germans.

  • Spike501

    27 February 2012 9:06AM

    This is not going to help Merkels position as the Greek bailout will already go directly to the Banks - not the Greek people. (Who are going to be obliged to pay tha Banks before the hospitals etc.)

    Greece still needs to borrow to pay the hospitals - without the bailout the hospitals could not be paid. To get the bailout (which is new debt), Greece must first agree to honour the old debt (well apart from the 53% that is being written off)

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 9:08AM

    Those guys paid a full-page ad in this Sunday's Le Monde. Those are greek big businesses (CocaCola Hellenic, OTE, others according to Kathimerini) wanting to present Greece reforms in a positive way to the rest of Europe. The choice of languages for the website is indicative of the target: english, deutsch and french, but also nederlands, probably because Netherlands has a biggest share of euroseptics than other.

  • lapidary

    27 February 2012 9:09AM

    This isn't just a German/Greek thing as there are 15 other Euro states which are affected too.

    Greece needs to default and get out the euro, I can't see how this will do them any more harm than this current humiliation.

    If you agree that "this current humiliation" is caused by irresponsible Greek politicians which made Greece live beyond their means, I agree with you.

    I sense a huge amount of sympathy for the Greek people, who frankly, have been economically and democratically shafted.

    To be more precise: Greek people .... have been economically and democratically shafted by their politicians and their upper class.

  • Canaryatthewharf

    27 February 2012 9:10AM

    the european banking system is far more integrated. Argentina's depositors couldn't easily get their money out. The Greeks could, and in the case of the richer ones, already have.

    Actually, there was a lot of deposit flight from Argentine banks in the run up to the default. It was one of the triggers as the banks had to contract lending in response, deepening the recession and leaving foreign investors and lenders convinced it would have to default.

    Much of the money went to Uruguay and when repatriated in 2002-03 (perhaps out of need since Argentina had frozen remaining bank accounts) this forced Uruguay to bail out its banks and restructure its own sovereign debt!

    You may gather that I'm not a fan of completely unregulated capital flows.

  • borora

    27 February 2012 9:12AM

    "The German taxpayer is against bailing out Greece."


    The German taxpayer is not bailing out Greece. Greek taxpayers at great cost to themselves are, under the duress of their own government, bailing out mainly German, French, Italian, Austrian and British banks. Without the support of Greek taxpayers there would be substantial negative implications for the taxpayers in those countries and carnage among the global financial class who have created this crisis.

    How many times must it be repeated, that it is the banks and the global financial class who are been bailed out at everyone else's expense before it is taken on board by some of the posters on this forum.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 9:16AM

    Yes, I saw the add in the Wall Street Journal european edition on friday. Very moving. Factually correct too, as far as I know.

    I wonder have they (or, were they allowed to) place a german translation in Bild. Which has the headline today of:

    Billions for Greeks. Stop! Today is payday in the Bundestag. Bild appeals to all MPs. Don't carry on with this craziness.

    The propaganda-peddling tabloid that they are.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 9:16AM

    bailing out mainly German, French, Italian, Austrian and British banks.

    Those same banks are accepting writing off 70% of the value of the greek bonds they have in their accounts. This implied significant losses for Crédit Agricole, for example, published last week. If your savings lost 70% of their value, would you call that a bailout?

  • Konstantinos79

    27 February 2012 9:20AM

    By saying "Give Greece a Chance" they really want to say "give Germany & France a Chance" to rule Europe! Greece is only the beggining of a unified centralized control of people in Europe.

    We are moving towards of a complete lost of identity (as the British already did).

    You are not going to be called German, French, Greek ,Italian.

    YOU ARE JUST GOING TO BE CALLED EUROPEAN as AMERICAN.

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 9:20AM

    Much of the money went to Uruguay and when repatriated in 2002-03 (perhaps out of need since Argentina had frozen remaining bank accounts) this forced Uruguay to bail out its banks and restructure its own sovereign debt!

    thanks, I didn't know that. It's quite rational behaviour, of course. Just very damaging in total.

    You may gather that I'm not a fan of completely unregulated capital flows.

    yes. They really do need to put capital flow controls in place for greece. I know it's against EU rules, but then, so are eurozone member-state bailouts.

    They turned a blind eye to it, when iceland did it.

  • lapidary

    27 February 2012 9:23AM

    The German taxpayer is not bailing out Greece.

    Not yet, but the time will come.

    How many times must it be repeated, that it is the banks and the global financial class who are been bailed out at everyone else's expense before it is taken on board by some of the posters on this forum.

    Exactly! Let the banks and hedgefunds go bust. They knew the risk lending so much money to Greece and knew the no-bail-out rule.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 9:25AM

    By saying "Give Greece a Chance" they really want to say "give Germany & France a Chance" to rule Europe! Greece is only the beggining of a unified centralized control of people in Europe. We are moving towards of a complete lost of identity (as the British already did).

    If you want to see fast loss of greek identity, just watch the young and educated emigrating en-masse, post-default. That's a rather more near-term and acute danger then paranoid fantasies about german and french plots to control europe.

  • Halo572

    27 February 2012 9:29AM

    Is this crisis still going?

    I remember back in the early days of it where you could go to the cinema and watch the newsreels of the riots, get some popcorn, have a bag of chips afterwards and still have enough change out of 3 Bob to get the bus home.

    Good times.

    Kids these days don't know they are born, to them the Euro Crisis is just something that has always been there and always will.

    Very much like the Depression caused by the early 2000s unsustainable boom.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 9:35AM

    Greece is only the beggining of a unified centralized control of people in Europe.

    If the greek government had managed to keep its level of state debt under reasonable levels, like the slovak or the estonian ones did, there won't have been a need for bailing it out and the greek state would be quite independent. The option of leaving the European Union is still open for any EU member.

    I imagine you are supporting Laos; opposed to the bailout agreement out of a nationalist point of view. What is the level of support for this point of view at the moment in the greek electorate? Less than 10%, if I remember correctly the polls, no?

  • kickinthenads

    27 February 2012 9:36AM

    Konstantinos79
    27 February 2012 9:20AM
    By saying "Give Greece a Chance" they really want to say "give Germany & France a Chance" to rule Europe!

    Why would the Greeks say that?

    We are moving towards of a complete lost of identity (as the British already did).

    I didn't realise the British had lost their identity.

    You are not going to be called German, French, Greek ,Italian.

    YOU ARE JUST GOING TO BE CALLED EUROPEAN

    By whom?

    Is a German really going to always call a French person "European", never "French"? I can't see it.

    (Speaking as someone who, when he lived in Paris, was visited for a few days by his German girlfriend's parents and siblings... Them: "In Germany, we follow the rules", me: "Well, you're in Paris now, and we don't.")

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!

    It's Monday morning, I'm as awake as I can be.

  • Canaryatthewharf

    27 February 2012 9:37AM

    Thanks

    That period is pretty much etched in my memory - I was monitoring on a weekly, sometimes daily basis, the figures for deposits at Argentine banks and even the daily (or maybe twice weekly) deliveries of new $ banknotes. (People were taking it out in cash and presumably abroad or stuffing under mattresses, like now in Greece)

    Agree with sentiment but it is too late now for Greek capital controls, except as part of a post EZ exit policy. Whilst favouring controls on some speculative capital flows for normal countries I think they're impossible to work within a Single Currency Zone or even a Single Market.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 9:56AM

    So Merkel is trying to save Greece for humanitarian reasons?

    Merkel is doing politics. The main political project of "mainstream" french, german and italian leaders since the 50s is the build-up of the European Union. For those mainstream leaders, presiding over a desintegration of the EU would be a total failure, of historical level, something like being written off as Chamberlain in future history books (for using a WW2 comparison, which I hate doing in general.)

    So, this is one of the main goals of Merkel. (Its main goal being reelected in 2013.) After that, she does calculations: what is the biggest risk, letting Greece go, which could trigger some contagion, or keeping Greece in, which implies money transfers, so which could be a difficult sell in Germany, knowing success is not guaranteed? The fact that the greek government wants to stay in the Eurozone, and the supposed dire consequences for the greek people of leaving the EZ, is one element of those calculations. But, to answer your question, no, Merkel is not acting only out of humanitarian reasons. But she is not either implementing a sinister plot for conquering the world.

    (I talked of french, german and italian leaders, but this is also true of belgian, luxemburger and nederlands ones. The original six members of EEC. For leaders of countries arriving later on in the EU, like Spain, or eastern europe countries, or of course the UK, I suspect the feeling is more "we need to be in that club", less than of historical responsability, but this will be dependent on each country. Also note I talked of "mainstream" leaders, ie roughly the conservatives + liberals + christian-democrats + social-democrats + greens. Other political trends -nationalists, communists - will see differently the EU, like our friend Konstantinos79 commenting up.)

  • HaveYouSeenThisMan

    27 February 2012 9:58AM

    After 10 years of overspending and a 53.5% debt write-off; how can Greece fail?

  • authurn

    27 February 2012 9:59AM

    A messy default is a very big, human tragedy, that wrecks lives. And the greek one would be much worse than a "normal" default, bad as they are ...

    I think the bailout will go through but will be followed by a default fairly early on, ie an orderly default. The banks will have taken the 70% losses, the insurance payouts will be controlled and predictable and everyone can grumble, say never again, and then everyone can start rebuilding. I guess that is what Merkel's Fiscal Compact will be about with european money helping Greece back on its feet. But, they can't openly discuss it yet because the creditors won't agree to the 70% if they do.

  • MacNara

    27 February 2012 10:04AM

    Helena Smith reported: "Of the €65bn euro whisked out of banks since late 2009 some €16bn ended up overseas, according to finance minister Evangelos Venizelos."

    So the suggestion is that Greeks have stashed an extra 49,000,000,000 euros under their matresses in the last two years or so (rather than put them in an 'offshore' bank in Cyprus (Proprietor: Putin), Luxembourg (Prop: Juncker, moonlighting as the Troika's lead man), Jersey, Cayman Islands (Prop: Cameron), Switzerland, or similar). Well, I suppose it's theoretically possible - only 4,000 and a bit euros per Greek citizen, babies included. But it sounds a bit implausible. If only 16,000,000,000 euros went abroad, that would be only 1,300 per Greek citizen, babies included. Not that big a deal.

    But it sounds rather like Venizelos claiming to weigh only 70kg rather than the 200kg that photos suggest. There are Bulgarians and Georgians competing in the Sumo wrestling here in Japan, and at high levels Sumo pays well. And you don't have to be intelligent at all, so Venizelos would have no problems. If he really wants to do something for the Greek economy, then maybe he could come here and try Sumo.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 10:05AM

    But, to answer your question, no, Merkel is not acting only out of humanitarian reasons. But she is not either implementing a sinister plot for conquering the world.

    Yes, that puts it well. The other thing that Merkel is trying to avoid is the rise of a eurosceptic, populist party in germany. That fear hems her in far more than any minister expressing disagreement about a bailout

  • authurn

    27 February 2012 10:07AM

    How many times must it be repeated, that it is the banks and the global financial class who are been bailed out at everyone else's expense

    Be honest:

    it is the banks and the global financial class who are been bailed out in order that Greece doesn't have to honour its debts.

    Even the creditors are taking losses on this, rather large ones at that.

  • Helianthe

    27 February 2012 10:07AM

    To those who say *let banks default* and who they believe Capitalism will survive and live happily ever after, as a happy pastel-coloured 50s version of socially driven Western market economy:

    The banks are for Capitalism what the central planning apparatus was for the Soviet Union.

    The accumulated profits and savings must be re-invested and banks must perpetually do this job in capitalism successfully taking all the risks that this job entails. If politicians banks default and a lot of the capital upon which your livelihood depends will vanish in an instant.

    What Merkel and others do now is just try and gradually write off this debt in the hope that the economy will miraculously pick up and eventually start paying back the debt. The prudent German taxpayer owes banks a few trillion as well - about 80% of GDP - remember. It is not only the ….Greeks <blah> (irony)

    What Merkel and others have not told us is how will the economy achieve this transformation. For 40 years the economy was globally growing at only 2-3% annually and this despite the vast injections of debt. Now, how is the economy expected to operate better than this once you remove both *past and future* debt from aggregate demand? I have not seen a satisfactory answer to this yet. When I see it, I will accept that this is a recession, a Greek crisis, a Euro crisis or any other mask currently put on the face of what is a huge capitalist crisis exacerbated by a massive overextension of credit.

  • ballymichael

    27 February 2012 10:10AM

    I think the bailout will go through but will be followed by a default fairly early on, ie an orderly default...But, they can't openly discuss it yet because the creditors won't agree to the 70% if they do.

    I'm not making any predictions at all. It mostly depends on the greek elections in april. Which is as it should be. If there's no stable majority of pro-agreement parties then I suspect what you say may happen, but "orderly default" is likely to be a complete misnomer.

    Effectively, we've already had the "orderly" part of the default.

  • mikeseabs

    27 February 2012 10:10AM

    Our thoughts, prayers and support should be with the Greek people in the years of hardship ahead of them. Outside the Eurozone, would be a path to recovery, but the French and German Banks cannot afford the defaults and write-downs. Please have an independent currency, default and devalue and then begin from a lower base. To start with, it would be cheap for everyone to holiday in Greece. It's a wonderful country and they would welcome the tourists, their cash and the jobs that this will bring. Greece should not be a pawn for other European countries poor decisions and an utterly failing Euro "one size fits all". Lets get back to the Eurozone as a free trade zone where we promote competition, freedome of labour and investment flows. Let's get away from the socialist command economy that the EU is trying to be and is utterly failing.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 10:14AM

    Is there some commenting about G20? If I understand well, IMF is asking funds for being recapitalized, US says "OK, but the EZ needs to have a biggest firewall", Germany is not so keen for freezing too much money, and if the IMF is not recapitalized, its contribution to the greek bailout will be weak.

    Are the positions irreconcilable, or will there be some kind of middle ground found somewhere in March? I will say the second but any precise info/hindsight will be appreciated.

    Also, if the IMF contribution to the greek bailout is minimal (13b€), is that a problem?

  • simlmx

    27 February 2012 10:19AM

    The IMF is a criminal gang. research their activities you'll see. they're a disgrace. I totally sympathise with the greek people. They're being lied about by these scum politicians in this country and on the television by the likes of the bbc. Don't see this collectivist wet dream that is the totalitarian EU lasting at all.

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 10:21AM

    but the French and German Banks cannot afford the defaults and write-downs.

    French and German banks (and UK ones, probably) are already accepting a loss of 70% on the value of their greek state bonds. I'm not sure having to support a 100% loss will bankrupt them. Will you be disappointed if Greece exits the eurozone and this doesn't bankrupt French and German banks?

  • duikrr

    27 February 2012 10:22AM

    Despite what Friedrich said, germany will try to prevent Greece leaving the euro at all cost and here is why: Target2 debts (says german top economist Hans-Werner Sinn). The German national bank has amassed over 500 billions of debt claims towards other euro national banks since 2007. In itself that is not a big problem, it only becomes one, should one of the indebted countries leave the euro.

    Here is the full article in Der Spiegel (german though): http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,817004,00.html

    On a side note it really shows just how much germany has profited on the expense of the other european countries...

  • fiveoclock

    27 February 2012 10:23AM

    Friedrich's phrasing has sinister tinges of Marlon Brando's line in The Godfather: "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."

    the germans have to cough up the money - they forged ahead with the euro now they have to pay

  • IfigEusLannuon

    27 February 2012 10:24AM

    The Greece is changing website has some data here. I'm disappointed they don't emphasize the diminution in defense budget as a positive indication that Greece is indeed changing.

  • fiveoclock

    27 February 2012 10:25AM

    The public's faith is fading fast
    The politicians don't give a damn about what the people think - the people never voted vor the Lisbon treaty and when they voted they rejected it.

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