Slight as in it doesn't show vital parts and just shows defined details. If it feels like I have zero empathy, maybe it's because we've already had this discussion and it's a dead horse at this point. complaining a game because it has sexualization for both females and males is just as redundant as complaining about games having gore and violence. There are plenty of games of EVERY genre that don't have sexualized females. You're acting like it's everywhere. What I feel you want to do it tell devs to STOP making games how they want, and instead cater to how YOU want.
Name 5 examples of females characters getting zoomed in like that in this year alone. Games like dead or alive don't count since sex appeal is the whole point of the series. I feel you're hyperbolic in your thinking. Even if your examples of it were true, it would only be true for like 5% of all games.
Well, my point is ALL lives matter. White, black, red, green and pink. Granted, the term "all lives matter" has been used to hell and back by conservative media as a push against BLM, but I like to think MY definition is juuuust a little different from theres: There's no color, there's just people. You crack us open, we're all made of the same gooey shit. Barring a few....anatomical differentiations, I'm exactly the same with men and women, and with regards to any sexed depictions of either one. I see no logical differentiation in sexes - probably why I'm bisexual! To me, men and women offer the exact same stuff in just different places, hence I tend to treat them the same. Maybe I'm...stupidly optimistic thinking that everyone will one day see past the barricades I see past. Or maybe I'm just fucked up and am a deviant in every way possible. But, this is regardless an opinion discussion, so here's my opinion: Complaining about stuff like this is silly. It's a double standard - for every female depiction which someone says is negative, you can find a male equivalent. And cherry picking to me is cheating. In times like these, I remember the Romans. They used to have this festival called Saturnalia where they celebrated and worshipped, well....Saturn. Naturally. Throughout Saturnalia, social castes were set aside, and sexes were set aside. You could literally be walking home with groceries and see people wandering about in the nude casually, or even having group sex out near the fountain square. Hell, you could even swap those groceries for a warm body for a casual pump for a few quick minutes before going back on your merry. Simply put, NOBODY GAVE A FUCK BACK THEN. They just. Had. Fun. They lived and loved to the fullest. And now....now we can't even love without getting offended over something. Don't you at least feel it's kind of tiring?
No, I'm pretty sure it is because you have zero empathy. The only dead horse here is people like you repeating the same non-arguments that basically amount to "I want to have my fun, fuck everyone else". This thread is meant to let people understand why women feel like they feel. You're free to not give a shit and continue your selfish existance, but why are you posting if you're clearly so uninterested? Yeah, except that plenty of game devs have actually acknowledged the issue and taken steps towards improving. Which is exactly what everyone wants and does; it's just apparently called "criticism" rather than "artistic integrity" when it's not about dehumanizing 50% of the human population. There's so much here to digest: 1) "Name five examples in this year alone, but even if your examples are true, it's only true for 5% of all games so I'll keep ignoring you". This may be the first time I've seen someone move the goalposts before they are reached; a new low. 2) The fact you're expecting and preempting someone actually coming up with (real) examples even in the narrow band you demanded, shows how you really know that sexualization is so commonplace. 3) How about the opposite? Name five AAA examples in each genre, this year, that featured zero sexualization. Go on, I won't even preempt them with "I'm sure these are the vast minority so I'm going to ignore you anyway".
I tell devs what I want so they can convince me to give them money. Why do you consider this a bad thing? Devs have said in this very thread, that they appreciate the information.
Fantastic, now explain to me what that mindfuckingnumbly platitude contributes to the discussion of cop violence against black people (beyond the uncalled and passive-aggressive implication that your interlocutors, somehow, believe people to be fundamentally different).
But isn't that how that works? If you see games as business, then the developers use gamers' feedback to maximize their provide. If you see them as art, then artists use audience's feedback to make their work better. Either way, the consumer's criticism - what they like or not like about something - is a crucial part of the equation. And either way, the decision is still up to the developers themselves. Heck, look at your first post here. "Don't ruin the fun for gamers who just want to play a game and escape," you said. There's nothing about developers at all there. Then it's not about developers at all, is it? It's all about "what the gamers want".
I don't know where you're getting the impression that this is OK. I have no idea what this bizarre non-sequitur has to do with... well, anything, really. But your contributions to this thread aren't... much.
I don't mean to detract from your point, as it's a good one, but uh... ... is it bad that I actually WOULDN'T mind this? Not in the same way. Oftentimes sexualized women in games are displayed in such attire but their characterizations don't back it up- it feels like they're sexy to be sexy and there's no practical reason as to why, not to give a deeper insight into their mind or anything, just... sexy to get the guys excited (yes I KNOW there are girls who like it, I know a few, but there are a great deal more who are discomforted by it, which is the issue here). In other words, objectified. On the other hand, most of the time when men are sexualized, it's very much in a power fantasy kind of way. The goal isn't first and foremost the arousal of the audience, but to show "this is one tough guy". I'm sure there are ways to have female characters come off as powerful via sexualization but without objectifying them. I apologize if I'm speaking over any women here with this, not my intent, feel free to call me out on anything I got wrong.
It's sexy I guess. It's comical more than anything else, and a bonus outfit (whereas women get this sorta thing as a standard outfit). I don't think it's particularly doing anything for me either sooo..... Here's some relevant video (can we update the OP with 'recommended reading/watching'? :P )
, I believe this happens in all threads regarding gaming. Women's voices don't count as much because there aren't as much of us. So when we talk about something that bothers us, people tend to freak out because it's not a big deal to them so us few women are ruining gaming or something. When we just want some examples of good female characterization without the body armor that would get them killed if someone threw a staple at them. But no it is not okay to completely dismiss women's voices in a thread about women's issues. It always seems like certain men seem to think that they know more about issues women have to deal with daily then women do.
Serious question, does a female character wearing less revealing clothing ruin the fun of games for you? Can you no longer 'escape' if the females have more clothing on?
The older I get the more I think it ruins the experience of playing a game. When a male character is dressed in full armor/clothing and the female equivalent looks like she's on her way to a rave party I don't want to play the game. Not to mention other stuff like the gigolo 'mini-game' in Killer is Dead (it should honestly be called 'Jerk off sessions'), it just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. There's so much porn available in various forms already, I don't need it in my games.
If you think, whatever. No, I just think you're beating a dead horse with non-arguments that basically amount to "I want every game to not have sexualize females, fuck everyone else". Well the "criticism" as I said before is redundant. I see you have a very hyperbolic view on things. Dehumanize? Are you okay? It's not an argument. As I said, try it. You'll be surprised that you can't come up with 4. Easy. Third person shooters Uncharted Splatoon Fortnite Evil With in PUBG first person shooters Call of Duty Destiny 2 Battlefront 2 Prey Rising Storm 2 Fighting Marvel Vs Capcom Tekken Injustice 2 Arms (fighting genre is pretty barren atm) RPG Horizon Zelda The Surge Mass Effect Nioh Is there anything I'm missing? Anyhow, if you think there is anything sexual and dehumanizing in these games...Than I think you might need to seek help.
I don't agree with everything in this video (mainly Bayonetta related stuff), but I gotta commend H Bomberguy for being pretty much the only lefty critique guy on Youtube that's actually funny. We need more of people like that.
Uh oh, now you need to seek help. ...I feel like I should have put a /s in my post, it was a pretty clear mocking of Biggui4yew's standards.
Oh, I'm more than familiar with her. I like her critique, but she'll at most get a chuckle out of me. It's unfortunate, but the "skeptics" have humor on YT on lockdown. Even H Bomberguy doesn't hold a candle to some of the more "mid-tier" people on the other side like Chris Ray Gun on the humor front. Absurdity in addition to snappy editing is damn attractive for getting your ideas across in that space. I'd say Jim Sterling kind of has it down as well, but not enough.
Cops are dipshits and need a scapegoat? Like every other jock with a tiny bit of authority? How about Nazis? What about their violence against Jews and Romas? How about the English and Spaniards? What about their violence against Native Americans? Let's get a little bit more modern, though. What about ICE? What about THEIR horseshit crusades against Latinos? Or about the average Americans treating Muslims like shit? Well, actually, not even Muslim - just Middle-Eastern in general. But nah. Let's just....let's just ignore all of them for now! We'll just milquetoast our way towards equality. Focusing on just ONE aspect is far simpler. When you compute and factor all other forms of racism and inequality and bigoted bullshit into the equation, it just gets too complicated! We'll just talk and march and protest ONE form of racist bullshit for the time being; all those other ethnicities will just have to ride it out I guess until we're done with this one. Don't dare tell me this isn't ridiculous. And with that, I think we should end this discussion right here. It's gotten way off topic.
Really good video, brings up a lot of good points. I hadn't actually considered what he brings up about Bayonetta. I don't agree on some of it, I personally related to her, but I can see how others might not. Incidentally thumbnail makes me think of how much I love Taki. Though I won't deny I do find her later incarnations attractive, if it would make others feel more comfortable, I'd not mind at all if she returned to something more akin to her Soul Edge appearance. Much less, well, um, tacky, hah.
Arms does too! The whole category is a bust. That said, I think games with sex scenes in them have more than zero sexualization, so I obviously need to seek help.
No, there aren't. Please show me plenty of fighting games without sexualized female characters (I can't think of even one, lol, though of course some [KI, MKX] are much better than others). Show me plenty of SRPGs without sexualized female characters. I've basically accepted that Street Fighter is now bootleg DOA tone-wise, and I'm done with Fire Emblem because the series not only got a change in female designs - now it's a marriage agency simulator. I'm excited to get plenty of alternatives for these games!
Actually now I got to thinking, I remember seeing an artist a while back redesign a lot of fighting game girls to be less overtly sexual. http://www.svampriket.se/2015/02/makeover-friday/ I think most of these look pretty great, I really love Taki's and Cammy's in particular. What do you all think?
Taki's is good, and I do like Elena's as well. I like some of the ideas of the other ones but they could use more work being a bit more memorable, but yeah I'd like to see more stuff like this. Thanks! I tend notice this stuff so often that it honestly surprises me when others don't. Remake of designs of the past. We've seen what their newer designs lead to. Also, the game isn't perfect with it either. Perfectly round molds for boob armor.
Yes, and I'd be willing to stick to the remakes if they don't alter them into being marriage agency simulators, lol. But I couldn't finish Fates, really.
I wanted to add to previous post that sexualization is fine. I love me some sexy dudes. But the problem here is that with this type of media (video games) it's so unbalanced to the point of being comical. Adding in the fact that women play games in almost the same amount as men, the question is why? Why can't we have good female characters that are actual whole people and not impossible boobs and upskirt shots as the do their attack dances?
I really think all of those look terrible from a technical and creative aspect. The attempt is nice but the artist needs better fundamentals, cause a lot of those redesigns (I-No,Felica) are absolutely dreadful.
I kind of agree. Some strong loss in visual distinction and interest there on a few of them, not that the attempt is in the wrong place.
This last page illustrates why the OP gave up on trying to explain why this is an issue from her perspective. The cycle: *A super reasonable post trying to address a deep-rooted problem from personal experience.* “But what about the other side?” “I don’t care about this issue.” “This isn’t an issue.” “It’s not that bad.” “If you don’t like how things are do something else.” Repeat ad nauseum. Please note that these responses constitute active denials of many peoples’ lived realities. These comments do not convey any effort on your behalf to try to understand what it is like to be in another person’s shoes. They do not unite and bring people together, however well your intention may be to get people to “look past this” towards some imaginary utopian future. This is not a debate you win by presenting a better argument. By contesting what others are trying to tell you is a problem for them, repeatedly, in many different ways, you are diminishing their voices and deflecting their concerns in order to preserve the status quo. A status quo that is blatantly discriminatory and unjust. For what? Some cheap titillation? So that you can feel clever? To those struggling to convey your perspectives or are exhausted from constantly having to tread the same ground again and again, know that some of us can and are hearing you. Some of us have and are learning from your stories and shared experiences. Keep fighting if you can. It’s also ok if you don’t though. It doesn’t always have to be your fight. Others can take up the slack.
Yeah I agree some of them aren't the best, but I like the general thought process. I think bolded is the big thing for me. I don't mind (and actually enjoy) sexualized designs at times. But there really needs to be a lot more designs that aren't so transparently sexual and that lets women enjoy games without feeling uncomfortable or otherwise objectified themselves. Fair enough. I wasn't really fond of Felicia's myself, it didn't seem to fit her much.
Ok. Correct Lol at the idea that none of these games feature sexualization, that's just being disingenuous. Zelda, Mass Effect, and Nioh all feature sexualization in some form. Just to use one of your fighting games, here's a bunch of outfits for Harley Quinn: that's not to mention characters like Morrigan in MvCI, Twintelle is Arms, I mean, you said Tekken, and I looked it up and come the hell on dude: Either you didn't bother to check and were just name dropping games or your didn't expect people to double check your posts. You're right that there's been a reduction in this schlock as of late but that doesn't mean that further discussion about it is not important.
This thread... Why do people think that all females feel this way about certain characters in a videogame? Because I'm telling you now, they just dont. You should change the thread title to "some" women. Also, why are some posters being warned/banned? Its a discussion...Its ok to disagree with others as long as the discussion is in a civilised manner.
Great post. It seems like every thread criticizing sexualization devolves into 'whataboutism' and drive by thread whining. I do think that as ResetEra continues to mature we'll see far less of this as particularly toxic individuals are weeded out.
This adds nothing. Plus the thread title doesn't even say all women. Just says women. Because women do criticize it.
Do you really not know? The mods clearly state why people are warned and banned above every offending post.
"What about the women that don't care/my friends don't care" is the third most common whataboutism.... >>
...feel what way exactly? Because if we're going to repeat the same conversation that has happened for the last 22/44 pages I would first like to know what you think the OP meant in her OP.
Its ok if people get offended but alot of the posters here seem to think that all women actually feel this way. Its stupid. I think that warning posters for disagreeing is not the way to go about it. Its ok to disagree, just dont act an asshole doing it. Shutting down all conversation from those that disagree, and being decent about it is not the way to handle this.
Typically it's only people who don't want this issue discussed who seem to jump in with assumptions that we think all women feel the same. Edit: If people are warned it's for the reasons stated. I'm willing to eat my warning because it was pretty much a shitpost anyway, but using tactics like pre-emptively shifting goal posts and declaring that people who find fault with your points or evidence need psychological examination is not conducive to good discussion.
