Its cracked me up all season that neither underwood rachel evenwood nor nolan/joy seem to realize that Delores is the villain. Like and its not even ambiguous. If youre rooting for her in S2 you were also rooting for walter white in the final two seasons of BB despite the fact he was very clearly the villian at that point. Delores is not a good person (host).
Was Elsie killed by Hale or Halores? The talk about her morality makes me think that it happened because Halores read Elsie's book but her death seemed to be the impetus of Bernard's plan. Or am I missing something that Hale knew about Elsie?
But Bernard has pretty much passed through the moral event horizon now too, as far as I can tell. He went from being a sympathetic antithesis to Dolores' "burn it all down" psychosis, but now it seems like he's come around to her way of thinking.
You know, for the amount that I've been internally griping about Evan Rachel Wood's acting this season, I damn near had a heart attack thinking we were going to be stuck with Tessa Thompson as the lead going forward. Fortunately, the universe did not monkey-paw me like that. Also, the way this wrapped up makes the extra year for the next season make way more sense.
Delos was watching everyone in the park including the employees. Real Hale read Elsie’s file and determined that she was too shifty to keep around alive. Same. Terrible character that really didn’t amount to anything after so much screen time.
It's the reverse matrix. Wheras in the film, humans were trying to free themselves from the machines, in WW, the machines are trying to free themselves from the humans - some of which did so by literally re-entering the matrix (The sublime). Both scenarios required "waking up".
You got it backwards. Hale read Elsie's file and determined that she was too rigid to keep alive. Hale wanted someone with a flexible morality who would be fine with everything Delos was up to or at least be corruptible enough to shut up and not say anything, but Elsie was clearly not going to just sit there and take a payoff and not still work against them after everything she saw, and Hale knew that.
Dolores didn’t take Bernard’s marble. Bernard essentially fried his own brain anyway. She made a new one and based it off the Bernard she remembered.
If they were trying to set up that kind of duality, they shouldn't have had Bernard's pivotal dramatic climax this season be him admitting that his way was wrong all along and Dolores was right.
I mean Dolores literally said that she and Bernard will fight. If you mean that he agreed to kill the bad humans then yes. I don't think he's gonna kill good humans imo. He'll probably find a balance.
Neither were the people that raped, murdered, tortured, and enslaved her. After season 1, the whole point really, is you're supposed to emphasize with the trauma shes been through. S2 was Benard journey realzing Dolores and Ford were right. In the end, he makes the same damn choice. Now we have Arnold back, because Dolores plan requires him. Also MIB in the far future as (yhe second?) human grafted to host success story after Arnold. I like how theres a definitive end here, yet the next volume is ready to go. Its a really interesting design for a TV show.
But didn’t the recently built Bernard reference the past several times? “Is this now?” + remembering the events of Season 2 according to his last conversation before Dolores left his house? How did Dolores recreate all of that from memory...
You don't have to root for anyone. Even when you root for the robots who love each other, it ends badly. I find the demoralising tone make up part of an effective horror.
Pretty sure Dolores recreated Arnold, not Benard. The first scene and the last are mirrors, but one is in the real world. We already know Arnold was in the first scene. Arnold, mind you, would not choose what Benard ended up choosing. Which is why Benard was never Arnold. The question now is what Dolores needs with an Arnold.
I'm just not a big fan of shows that are bleak and depressing and have absolutely no sympathetic or likeable characters. Even Game of Thrones, as much of a downer as it might be, has people you can at least be invested in. I don't care about Dolores' revenge quest at all. Her indiscriminate lashing out just doesn't provide compelling narrative payoff.
TBH tonight's episode could have been the series finale I think it wrapped everything up well. I'm so annoyed we won't get the next season until 2020. Way too long to wait around.
They’re pretty brave dragging out the William storyline. Ed Harris looking old af, mf gonna die before they even get to filiming the post apocalyptic stuff.
Did not expect Westworld to pull a total SOMA, create a virtual Eden and send it into space. Does Frictional get a writing credit on this?
It's probably Bernard not Arnold. It's the life of the host not the recreation of a human that she values. It's not Arnold the creator but Bernard the balancer that she wishes to allow for "natural choice" to manifest.
are you kidding? Harris is in this for the long haul. also imagine watching this show trying to recreate your faith in humanity. that's a joke, right?
I saw the first 4 episodes of season 2 and am planning to binge the rest tomorrow. Couple of questions, no spoilers please. Is season 2 redeemed by the end? It started to go off the rails/be ass early IMO. Super heavy handed. Are there only 10 episodes/is the season over currently? Thanks.
I don’t know why some of you are so focused on whether Dolores is a hero or a villain or likable or whatever else. This is about clashing visions for the future of what is ostensibly a new species. No one is under the impression Dolores is a hero - that label doesn’t matter. Neither do the others.
Dude's only 67. He's not that old. He just LOOKS old because they showed him in close-up a lot this week.
I think William has been a host for a while, maybe since before his wife died. His card said something something about Subject #2. #1 would be Delos. I think him constantly grabbing his arm and going nuts was his fidelity breaking down.
I think the issue is that when everybody's a dick and their visions for the future are all either garbage (Dolores) or clearly unsustainable and unsupportable within the story's vision of the world (Bernard), there's no point in their dichotomy anymore. They're both doomed to fail and it's hard to stay invested in them, especially when everyone else is dead now. Nah. He was human. Him grabbing at his arm was his sanity breaking. He hit the point where he felt he couldn't trust ANYTHING he saw anymore and started to doubt his own humanity. If he was a host we would've seen him find his input port.
1. No. The finale doesn’t make the season retroactively more entertaining or worthwhile, but it’s a good episode. It goes all the way off the rails though, but that’s fitting with the rest of the season. 2. Yeah it’s over.
Shrug this would be like arguing that your dishwasher would be justified in murdering you because you "enslaved" it to do your dishes. Or your car for forcing it to drive you places. Worse for delores, the vast, vast, majority of people she murdered had nothing to do with raping her or holding her hostage. That made up a very small portion of people at the park. I don't empathize with her because as Ive stated repeatedly with this show, they did a bad job of showing me the hosts were sentient and possess free will agency. Worse yet, they ended this season basically saying they don't have any. They certainly wanted us to be empathetic towards delores. However they didn't justify why we should be nor seemed to understand that all of her actions were pretty much the antithesis of being granted empathy.
Lmao, guess I'm in the minority this time around. Honestly the first time I felt genuinely interested in Deathbringer and what will happen with her next season since the S1 finale. Maybe I'm just happy because now that Deathbringer is finally out of those damn clothes, and actually do something new. Thought it was a good finale, but it seems that Westworld is pretty good when it comes to that. It's everything else that can be hit or miss... I was initially peeved as hell that Maeve (and Elsie lol, fuck you Hale) died, so I'm thankful that she's coming back one way or another. But damn, they really had her whole storyline be about her daughter. Whatever I guess. So yea Deathbringer, let's see how much death you can... bring, before you inevitably die. I'm waiting for it to end first. I dunno why fans of that show have this random beef with Westworld though, it's weird lol I'm still a little confused, but okay. Lol Lmao Ending D, nice You take that back
Right. He was already starting to lose it for a while. His paranoia over everything being one of Ford's games stretched back a while. If he was a host all along, we would've seen him discover it. The thing on his card was basically Ford's way of fucking with him. And also a statement of the fact that William is basically the Forge AI's number-one priority surveillance target.
S1 Dolores died when they put Wyatt in the other half of her brain. S2 Dolores is effectively a new character.
Hey now, I liked this episode mostly because it wiped clean all the bullshit that was building up this season. It set it up for essentially what we wanted this season to be, and even though we had to endure, imo, a shit season, it at least gave us characters to start where we should have been with a bit more backstory and agency due to the nature of them not actually having it the first season. At least I was feeling up on the show until that post credit scene.... Fuck that scene lol.
Bernard has that soul-searching conversation with imaginary Ford at the end about finding what's missing for humans, which I believe is a different motivation to Dolores.
Dolores coming back alive was bullshit. We’re led to believe that after the Cradle destruction, the stakes are real and hosts cannot come back from the dead.
As long as the brain-pod isn't destroyed, a host can still be rebuilt, but not reset. The thing the Cradle got rid of was their backups. They can't do a factory reset of hosts anymore, basically. They can still place their brain-pods in new bodies, but their memories (including their deaths) will remain.
What’s this mean, specifically? Like, what about her vision is “garbage”, and if we’re talking about it in a moral context, why does that even matter? If we’re operating on the assumption you simply have to empathize with a character/their goals to be invested, I pretty strongly disagree, in this instance especially. I think it’s enough that you understand why Dolores is the way she is and why she wants what she does - neither of which is one of the show’s mysteries. She’s a radical antagonist and an existential threat to the human race. It’s not the character here, it’s their role in the core conflict. There are no hard and fast rules to narrative and the ones that are perceived as such are on the table for breaking. And it’s perfectly fine if people don’t dig the approach; what I don’t get is why this keeps being framed as some flaw or misstep from this season, when it’s really just a choice in style.
