(I’m holding my breath here waiting for an answer…..)

And I’m holding my breath here waiting for you to accept the RoE….

Ah yes, the Molten Steel video. Here’s what Ryan Mackey has to say about the molten steel hypothesis (he devotes 6 pages, pp. 82-87, to it in a section entitled Molten Metal in the WTC Basements):

hey fellas,

Why didn’t we just furnish “the evidence”, take him into custody, try him, and convict him ?

Well, obviously, because there is no “evidence”.

“The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/fbi-says-no-hard-evidence-connecting-bin-laden-to-9-11/2623

I put the reason some people can’t ‘go there’ when it comes to 911 is the sheer moral terror of accepting, even in part, that your very government would do something so unspeakably monstrous. It numbs them to the marrow of their spine, and it should.

It means our gov is run by psychopaths so evil they make axe murderers look like amateurs. They make Charles Manson look like a girl scout by comparison. And when you realize that, where do you go from there?

What would you do when you realize the people you trust to keep you safe and protected- like your parents when you’re a child or your government- like to lock people into rooms and set them on fire? Like they did at Waco, and like they did on 911. It changes the wiring in your brain, and you are never the same person again. Imagine if your father or brother was John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy. Imagine the moral horror of realizing and trying to deal with that.

I suspect it’s something like that that prevents otherwise intelligent people from accepting what was done on 911, and by whom.

As a result, the samples recovered from WTC 7 do not prove any extraordinary temperatures.

To repeat my stand on the matter, it is of small importance to me what the precise number of Jews killed were [6m or 600k]; the fact is a great many souls were were sent on their way to meet the Maker.

Sam, I’m going to address you know as if there is a sensible, reasonable (and yes, HONEST) person inside you struggling to get out. I am addressing that better you, in other words, okay?

Look, what you are saying above, that it doesn’t matter whether 6 million or 600 thousand Jews were killed…. this makes me cringe. Obviously, any honest person of a minimal level of intelligence knows that it matters. It really does.

Look, I currently live in a town of about 100,000 people. If, hypothetically, there was a tragedy in which a large number of people from this town died, a massacre or a plague or whatever, it would matter greatly whether 90,000 people died or 9,000 died. Even granting that for the people who die, it doesn’t matter, they’re dead, but from the point of view of understanding the event, it obviously matters greatly. Because if it was the larger number, 90,000 out of 100,000 people, means the town afterwards was a ghost town. If 9,000 people died, it would be very traumatic for that community, but life would simply continue.

To come to some basic understanding of the tragedy, yes, you would have to know whether the death toll really was the 90,000 or more like the lower figure, because it would be crucial in terms of just getting your head around the event.

The events in Europe in the early 1940′s are not really different from that. If there were, let’s say 8 million Jews in Nazi occupied Europe, it matters very very much, in terms of one’s basic understanding of the event, whether 6 million were killed or 600,000.

I know you didn’t come up with this line of horseshit yourself. You’re repeating some line that you obviously didn’t think about too much. So think about it and you will realize that what I am saying to you is true.

You should really really refrain from this. Because the people saying stuff like this, that it doesn’t matter whether 6 million died or 600,000 — such people are saying this with an intent to deceive. Obviously it matters.

Sam, you are a guy who kind of wears his Jewishness on his sleeve and you get angry when people ascribe negative characteristics to Jews and so forth. If you wear your Jewishness on your sleeve and engage in this kind of blatantly dishonest discourse, and then complain if people say Jews are dishonest, I think this really gets to be untenable.

Well, regardless of the Jewishness issue, you should really find it in yourself to uphold higher standards of honesty. I’m hardly a perfect person, but on these pages, I do try to maintain a high level of honesty and you might really consider moving more in that direction yourself.

Anyway, some of the same people who say that it doesn’t matter whether it was 6 million or 600,000 because every single life is priceless blah blah will very vindictively go after anybody who does try to say it was more like the lower figure. So they’ll say it doesn’t matter but then…

Anyway, the whole line that the number doesn’t matter, at least to anybody with any sense, reeks of dishonesty. You’re repeating nonsense that comes from very very dodgy people. You should really try to do better.

Why didn’t we just furnish “the evidence”, take him into custody, try him, and convict him ?

Well, obviously, because there is no “evidence”. This Geokat shill you are talking to, he knows perfectly well that there is no evidence. I’ve asked him so many times what the evidence for the Bin Laden story is and he always refuses to answer.

You Truthers provide a satisfactory answer to this question and I’ll put down my crayons and colouring book

I have now asked you maybe a half a dozen times the following question: What, in your view is the strongest evidence available that the government story is true, i.e. that these attacks were orchestrated by a religious fanatic in Afghanistan?

Not only have you never provided a “satisfactory answer”, you have never even attempted to answer.

Nonetheless, you write various things simply assuming that the Bin Laden story is true, like saying that, to understand why 9/11 happened, you have to read Osama Bin Laden’s “Letter to America” or some such thing, that probably wasn’t even written by Osama Bin Laden since he was already dead anyway, but never mind. Even if he did write the “Letter to America” who cares, if there is no proof that he had anything to do with 9/11 anyway.

So you just assume things, like that Bin Laden was behind it and if somebody asks you what the proof is, you just ALWAYS walk away.

As for “truthers”, truthers are demanding a new investigation. That’s what the petition on the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth is calling for, a new investigation. So they are not saying that they absolutely have all the answers. You’re completely misrepresenting the debate. Of course, at another point, you said you wanted an investigation of the Israeli involvement in 9/11, or foreknowledge, so you are in favor of some sort of investigation.

What you don’t want, apparently, is an investigation of the buildings being blown up. You’re like somebody who says he wants an investigation into the JFK assassination but doesn’t want to investigate anybody getting shot.

And then you keep pushing this Ryan Mackey garbage, like “Have you read all 306 pages of…”

Rurik (at least a couple of months ago) still was arguing that you are an honest person. I don’t see how he can believe this. There is no way that an honest person would behave the way you do. You are some sort of shill. You must be.

Both Kevin Ryan’s and Jim Hoffman’s criticism were rebutted by Ryan Mackey in his revised white paper.

Oh really? I don’t think so. I glanced through that a while back and both critiques were so devastating that I doubt that Mackey had any serious counter-rebuttal. The fact is that the Ryan Mackey stuff is such total crap that it largely rebuts itself.

My sense is that, to make this sort of comment, you must not have read all 306 pages of his updated paper. Give it a read, it’s a good one.

OMG, what an ass-clown you are. Still going on with this line of bullshit: “Oh, you didn’t read Herr Doktor Quack’s 306 page treatise on the flying pigs. You must read it! It’s brilliant!”

Now, I note that you do not explicitly claim that you yourself read all 306 pages of that garbage. Obviously, one would infer that you had, but you don’t explicit say you did.

Did you? Yes or no? (I’m holding my breath here waiting for an answer…..)

You know, Geo,

Sometimes the truth of the matter reveals itself, through the conduct and actions of the state “after the fact”, and not before.

After 9-11, there was a crystal clear mandate from the American people to bring the perpetrators responsible, to justice.

There was no mandate to invade and destroy an entire country that never attacked us.

We know, to a certainty today, an enormous amount of fraud was foisted upon us to goad us into invading Iraq:

The bogus “imminent WMD threat ”
The fallacious attribution of the “anthrax attack” to Saddam.
The pernicious “yellow cake from Niger” lie.
The erroneous linkage of Saddam to Al Qaeda,
Etc, etc…

We are also well aware that Afghanistan admitted to having Bin Laden, and would release him into US custody were we to furnish the “evidence” of his involvement in 9-11.

Why didn’t we just furnish “the evidence”, take him into custody, try him, and convict him ?

Instead, we invaded Afghanistan, did a “bone crushing” job in the first few months, then ( quite mysteriously) allowed Bin laden to escape by “dropping the ball” in Tora Bora,…. made an abrupt left turn,….. and invaded Iraq.

How exactly do you explain this behavior, Geo ?

Having a clear understanding of the massive defrauding campaign, to deceive us into invading Iraq, does not bode well, at all, when reflecting on the “integrity” of the 9-11 narratives.

Does it ?

Rurik is 100% within his rights,( given the penchant of that administration to be decidedly less than truthful with the American people) to allow his skepticism to reflect back on the events of 9-11, too, and question the “authoritas” underpinning that narrative.

Where, exactly, does the fraud begin, Geo ?

( Why is there any fraud anyway ?)

And if we cannot be sure, it begs the question of why ANY of the pages of the 9-11 report were “redacted” in the first place.

Doesn’t it ?

… did he go to China and look at the steel and the forensic evidence…

No, Rurik, his analysis was based on the samples recovered from WTC7:

My in-laws are Orthodox Christians and they do egg hunts at our house. They like it too.

They may like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s an Orthodox tradition.

Orthodox Christians do have traditions that do indeed involve eggs, such as painting and tapping them, but not hunting for them. This is a Protestant Christian tradition:

Lizette Larson-Miller, a professor with the Graduate Theological Union of Berkeley, traces the specific custom of the Easter egg hunt to the Protestant Christian Reformer Martin Luther, stating “We know that Martin Luther had Easter egg hunts where the men hid the eggs for the women and children, and it probably has this connection back to this idea of eggs being the tomb.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_hunt

So either they’re being hypocrites, or you’re full of s**t. I suspect the latter.

I agree that someone is full of s**t, but it ain’t me, CP.

plz tell me Pastor Anderson of Marching to Zion fame got his divinity degree out of a Cracker Jax box, and his three followers have no access to the outside world.

otherwise we are well & truly f*%Kd

A school friend of mine who got prizes for history and became a public service lawyer (and probably voted Labor – not my party – except when feeling cranky) got dislodged from his long time secretaryship of the state civil liberties union because of his questioning or denying of the received Holocaust story and/or support for the denialist Frederick Toben (the one who got himself gaoled in Germany) and I don’t suppose it was just the many Jews in that organisation who ousted him. So you can see I am well aware of PC matters which would be of particular concern to you.

What I see you as contending is that the PC prohibitions on the sayable – quite apart from the obvious legislated prohibitions in a few countries (not many in relation to the Holocaust contrary to what I think you are asserting fwiw) – are the product of organised Jewish pressure and manoeuvring. To complete your case with credibility I think you would have to concede that the educated and other opinion makers are quite conscious of what may be true but unsayable and to be avoided so that it is somehow the witholding of well known truths (or at least possible but unmentionable truths) from the great unwashed which does the damage that ultimately perverts American and some other countries’ policies.

Or maybe it just works through the economics of Congress membership? The money required to stay elected through primaries and house elections is utterly corrupting apart from the odd rich candidate. Then the uncorrupted who want support for legislation have to be sensitive to the ownership of each Congressman, be it AIPAC, biofuels or the defence industry – or all of them. Am I closer to your thesis?

good lord

The amount of thermite required is also large, since approximately 140 kg of thermite is needed to melt each ton of steel,

is he suggesting that the anyone is saying that the entire building’s steel beams were melted down?!

Nobody is saying that the entire building’s steel was melted down at the moment of collapse. Just that enough thermite was used to cut the beams so that they’d fall into nice piles that could be efficiently and quickly and quietly scurried away to be shipped off and then melted down in China, including the massive blobs of melted steel (from the cut beams)

that was also whisked away and then re-melted down).

We should, therefore, expect to find literally tons of formerly melted iron blobs in the debris pile. We have found none

did he go to China and look at the steel and the forensic evidence of the most heinous crime ever committed on US soil before it was all destroyed so that it could never be investigated?

Not to mention the evidence of an engineering impossibility

Dr. Griffin himself has presented no hard evidence of melted iron, even though he is clearly motivated to do so.

this sack of shit is casting aspersions upon the motivations of a hero, while protecting the fiends who commuted this singular crime

and are therefor not just responsible for the lives lost that day

but are also responsible for all the deaths and destroyed lives and destroyed countries and Constitutional treasons the American people have been subjected to, as a direct consequence of those men’s crimes, (and their apologists like this “$cientist” who’s trying to cover it all up and misdirect the blame to innocent people who’re trying to find out who really did this.

No?

My in-laws are Orthodox Christians and they do egg hunts at our house. They like it too. So either they’re being hypocrites, or you’re full of s**t. I suspect the latter.

Even if the collapse was “inevitable” (which it wasn’t) the buildings still wouldn’t have collapsed accordion-style into a nice neat pile ready for shipment to China. Anyone who watches a real-time video of building 7 collapsing into it’s own footprint at free-fall acceleration and does not recognize a classic controlled demolition is an idiot (sorry for being so direct but that’s the only appropriate word for it). Due to being educated in science and technology, a full 90 percent of Europeans know without a doubt, that all e buildings coming down on 9/11 were brought down by controlled demolition. Roughly 60 percent of Americans (the same idiots who can’t name the capital city of the state they live in, or find the US on a map) are the only people on earth ignorant enough to buy the official story.

[Ryan Mackey's] BS has been demolished already, for example;

Both Kevin Ryan’s and Jim Hoffman’s criticism were rebutted by Ryan Mackey in his revised white paper. My sense is that, to make this sort of comment, you must not have read all 306 pages of his updated paper. Give it a read, it’s a good one.

Geokat, your beloved Ryan Mackey is nothing if not a cheap propagandist for the RIDICULOUS official 9-11 story, shame on you for bringing up this quack.

And your beloved Kevin Ryan is nothing but a beacon of truth and a stellar example of those peddling the OBVIOUS inside job, kudos to you for bringing up this expert in environmental testing:

Kevin Ryan’s position at Underwriters Laboratories was that of environmental testing, not structural certification or fire engineering. He was fired shortly after writing this letter, which he copied to Dr. Griffin among others, and which appeared in public shortly thereafter:

“UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center,” said Paul M. Baker, the company’s spokesman.

Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he “expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL.”

“The contents of the argument itself are spurious at best, and frankly, they’re just wrong,” Baker said. – p. 192 of the white paper

48th Annual Lewes Delaware Good Friday Kite Festival & 2nd Annual Easter Egg Hunt

Thanks, but Orthodox Christians don’t do egg hunts.

So you and the sceient believe that modern steel frame buildings can vaporize from the inside out instantaneously, and the “scientist” even goes as far as to suggest that “total” collapse of buildings once they’re damaged is “inevitable”… Maybe it was your “scientist” who calculated that it’s vaporization was inevitable, once it had been damaged..

So, Rurik, the official narrative is bogus, I get it. And these are your two strongest arguments for why you’re convinced 9/11 was an inside job. While this admittedly is the “smoking gun,” to clinch your case, you still need to prove whose finger prints are on the gun. And what do Truthers point to to establish whose finger prints are on the gun? They say that because bldg 7 collapsed without being hit by a plane, all 3 bldgs must have been brought down by Controlled Demolition (CD). And since there is no audible evidence to support this assertion, they have to come up with an alternative explanation – i.e., it is OBVIOUS that nano-thermite must have been the magical substance that brought down all 3 bldgs.

But here’s the hurdle the Truthers need to overcome for all the childish Neanderthals to arrive at the same conclusion that these adult Homo sapiens have arrived at:

The thermite hypothesis implies that we must find large pools of formerly molten iron in the debris pile – the leftover puddle from the thermite device itself. There are no such blobs or pools of iron. Since, as Drs. Griffin and Jones suggest, the fires in the debris pile were not hot enough to melt steel, they should also not be hot enough to melt these iron blobs, and thus they would be expected to survive indefinitely. The amount of thermite required is also large, since approximately 140 kg of thermite is needed to melt each ton of steel, assuming perfect heating efficiency and no losses whatsoever due to thermal conductivity in the steel itself. We should, therefore, expect to find literally tons of formerly melted iron blobs in the debris pile. We have found none. Similarly, Dr. Griffin himself has presented no hard evidence of melted iron, even though he is clearly motivated to do so. - Ryan Mackie (NASA rocket scientist)

You Truthers provide a satisfactory answer to this question and I’ll put down my crayons and colouring book and stop flying my kite that’s in the shape of a pig.

I wasn’t talking about your typos Wizard, that’d be pretty brazen of me, knowing how badly I spell

rather it was the rather peculiar language towards the end..

UTYour Holocaust advertisement example suggests a big retreat by you from a more extravagant full blown attack on media

No, my Holocaust example cuts precisely to the quick of my attack on big media, and the corruption behind it.

After all there is nothing hidden about such formal or informal rules.

nothing could be less true Wiz. The dishonestly of the Shoah and implied perpetual debt owed to Jews in general by that scam is not only hidden, but verboten to even mention.

In sime countries it is a matter of necessarily public legislation. In others it is current PC, also well known. It is also well known thst other countries and cultures contest the conventional Western view of the Holocaust. So it really falls within the general range of exceptions to the free speech rules that all Western countries follow in some degree, though without full blooded First Amendment protection.

Don’t you mean “free speech” rules?

And why is that Wiz? Could our lack of free speech regarding the Holocaust have something to do with Jewish subversion of our open discourse on important matters of consequence? A sort of, imposed pall upon what we’re allowed to talk about? Why are there laws against asking questions about it in so many countries? Why do they put 85 year old ladies, (who’ve never had so much as a parking ticket), in prison for asking questions?

Truther views if the media involve much more profound mind control! And mind control is very far from achieved with a majority of the media people I know. Many would rejoice in shamelessly saying “I was totally wrong in my rejection of the story that a travelling band of Transgender comedians was used to infiltrate the WTC unnoticed and plant the thermite bit by bit from their makeup bags”.

this is where I figured you should have corked the bottle

Reference to WTC 7 is to me as a disinterested (and largely uninterested) outsider the litmus test of a truther’s willingness to pay honest and diligent attention to evidence and logic.

There is no sensible theory consistent with any of the truther nominations of the villains which involves planning to have WTC 7 burn all day and collapse.

Furthermore there is plenty of evidence littering the www showing WTC 7 as having been set on fire early after the planes hit the towers presumably by something burning hitting it, then burning inside all day until the structure collapsed. (Presumably the fires would have set off explosives much earlier).

Since you evidently lack the powers of observation or imagination to notice that a clumsy thumb on a smartphone produces the typos that were rather too frequent in my post – and that can have many innocent explanations – I invite you to turn to consideration of what you could, if attempting in good faith to understand, easily take in and respond to with a substantial answer, if you have one.

their fellow men, but rather compulsory that the cadre possess a certain hatred for them as well.

what else can explain things like fomenting world wars and gulags and Gitmos and “Casting Lead’ in Gaza and destroying country after country in the Middle East?

Then, like Michael Vick with his dogs, they foist incompatible peoples into the same living space and watch with Michael Vick’s eyes as the blood fest plays out for their amusement.

What is that if not a hatred of humanity?

They have all the money in the world. They’re by far the most well off minority in the Western world. They do far better than even the majority. But that’s not enough! They have to watch others suffer and die and live in misery and humiliation. They have to foist strife and see hatreds unfold and push and push and push until people are ready to burst at the endless outrages and wars and tribal human dog fights in the streets.

What is with that incessant, seemingly congenital need to hate others? Is it the religion?

Why not just continue to amass wealth and perks galore? Why mash their host’s face in the mud until the rage is bursting and then they’re looking for an exit strategy- in places like France, where they had it so well. But they can’t leave it at that. They have some strange imperative to shit on their host, and push them into far-right survival mode. And I just consider this a curious and unfortunate trait, no?

The evidence for a close Saudi tie to the conspirators is irrefutable.

which “conspirators” PG?

I wonder what James Woolsey would say…

(he’s my hero ; )

Huh?

into the vino perchance wiz?

Steel buildings don’t vaporize from the inside out instantaneously. There is no rationalization that can make that impossibility into a possibility.

Look, Rurik, as you know, we’ve already thoroughly debated this issue on another thread. Rather than rehashing it here, suffice to say that I cited the evidence presented by a rocket scientist at NASA (Ryan Mackey) who says it can happen and provides the scientific explanation for how it happened, in painstaking detail.

>>sigh<<

then I go to your more recent response with quotes from this "scientist"

NIST did not need to consider the late stages of building collapse in any detail, since earlier calculations demonstrated a total collapse was virtually inevitable once the impact floors collapsed.

is he even talking about building seven?! Or is he trying, (as usual) to obfuscate with idiocy regarding the other buildings?

Ok, fine. So you and the sceient believe that modern steel frame buildings can vaporize from the inside out instantaneously, and the “scientist” even goes as far as to suggest that “total” collapse of buildings once they’re damaged is “inevitable”. Even tho we know of gobs of buildings where a controlled demolition goes wrong and even these buildings don’t do a “total” collapse. They fall over.

But whatever. Let’s just pretend that if a modern steel frame building is damaged, even slightly = well then a total vaporization of it’s entire structure is not just possible, or likely, but “inevitable”, even tho it’s never happened in the history of the universe until late in the day on 911. Never mind all that. We’ll pretend like all of that is true.

But then how do you explain how the media knew before hand that building seven was going to fall?

watch them reading the explanation for how this happened, and tell me someone didn’t know that building was going to come down. Maybe it was your “scientist” who calculated that it’s vaporization was inevitable, once it had been damaged..

Both articles deal directly with subjects being addressed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/02/cia-director-says-secret-911-report-pages-full-hearsay-inaccurate-info.html

48th Annual Lewes Delaware Good Friday Kite Festival & 2nd Annual Easter Egg Hunt

Yeah, geokat, we all get it by now, in your world, pigs do fly…

I’m not ignoring you guys, I’m just a little busy today roasting a lamb on the spit, in celebration of Orthodox Easter. I’ll get back to those who’ve commented on my posts with a more fulsome response as soon as I finish putting away my crayons and colouring book… and stop flying my kite, which happens to be in the shape of a pig.

The Israel-did-9/11 fanatics will never be satisfied unless the giant post-hoc narrative they constructed is revealed to be true to the letter– and they might not even be satisfied then.

The official 9-11 story is r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s and doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

Few know that several of the high level 9-11 commissioners exhibited serious doubts as to the work of the commission.
So did some CIA vets.
Here are some quotes:

Michael Scheuer, 22-year CIA veteran, Chief of the CIA’s Bin ladens unit at the counter-terrorism center 1996-99.
On Fox News (10/09/10), Judge Andrew Napolitano asked Scheuer, “ Was the 9/11 Commission report a whitewash?”
Scheuer replied, “ It was a WHITEWASH AND A LIE from top to bottom”.

Robert Baer, 21-year CIA vet, considered by famous investigative journalist Seymour Hersh as ‘perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the middle east’.
During an interview on the Tom Hartmann show(6/09/06), Hartmann asked him: “are you of the opinion there was an aspect of inside job to 9-11 within the US government?”

Baer replied: “ There is that possibility. The evidence POINTS AT IT.”

Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.” And he said: “It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened”.
Farmer also said that the 9-11 commission executive director, Philip Zelikow(a ZIONIST), sent a small group of insiders a secret document outlining the commission’s PREDETERMINED conclusions.

9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking.

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton said “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue ”

9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

Geokat, your beloved Ryan Mackey is nothing if not a cheap propagandist for the RIDICULOUS official 9-11 story, shame on you for bringing up this quack.

His BS has been demolished already, for example;

http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/b/MackeyLetter.pdf

http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/mackey/

If memory serves, it was also u, who brought up popular mechanics to shore up the crumbling official dossier, so here they were taken apart:
Debunking the Real 9/11 Myths: Why Popular Mechanics Can’t Face up to Reality – Part 1

http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/604-debunking-the-real-911-myths-why-popular-mechanics-cant-face-up-to-reality-part-1.html

Yeah, geokat, we all get it by now, in your world, pigs do fly…

You trust somebody employed at NASA?

Go back to your crayons and coloring book.

Neanderthals were according to most scientists, possessing of a much larger brain, therefore a far greater capacity to analyse without the reliance of a larger group. Be it so noted.

Someone wise once said “Always trust those who say they are seeking the truth, and always doubt those who claim they have found the truth”

I can never get past the first three paragraphs of a Razib Khan article, so I’m working thru a MOOC, Introduction to Biology

https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:MITx+7.00x_3+2T2015/courseware/Week_1/Introduction/

lectures by Eric Landers.

Lesson 1, Landers said it’s likely homo sapiens mated with Neanderthals way back when; a guy named Trinkaus published an article in 2010 that showed that most of us homo sapiens have about 4% Neanderthal DNA.

So you’re just tapping your inner Neanderthal, geokat62.

Geokat. The summation of your ridiculous diatribe is that the world may be flat after all. What a relief that must be for the Neanderthals amongst us.

What can I say, CP, I guess it’s OBVIOUS that I’m just a Neaderthal making these ridiculous diatribes. I just wish I could be as serious as you Truther Homo sapiens.

So, CP, just out of curiousity: do you think all 3 bldgs were brought down by nano-thermite or were the bldgs actually holograms that were never really impacted by commercial airplanes and the passengers on board all 4 planes were gassed to death so no one could leak the OBVIOUS truth to us Neanderthals?

So, by all means, please do enlighten us Neanderthals, won’t you?

Geokat. The summation of your ridiculous diatribe is that the world may be flat after all. What a relief that must be for the Neanderthals amongst us.

LIHOP ?? MIHOP??

LIHOP = Let It Happen on Purpose
MIHOP = Make It Happen on Purpose
IHOP = International House of Pancakes

I don’t know exactly what happened and who did it; I do know it did not happen as government sources / elites have claimed it did…

I’m ok with that. What I take issue with is when those in the Truther Community (TC) who claim it is OBVIOUS that 9/11 was an inside job – i.e., it was MIHOP. And they say that it is OBVIOUS it was controlled demolition (CD) that brought down all 3 bldgs. And if you don’t agree that it is OBVIOUS then you must be one of those fools who believe that PIGS CAN FLY.

As I’ve indicated in a previous post, Rurik and I have already debated this topic on another thread. I’ll leave you with this exchange which clearly outlines my views on 9/11:

Hi, Rurik. As I’ve indicated before, I have no difficulty “going there.” If this weren’t true then why do I accept the Liberty was a deliberate attack that the American gov’t participated in covering up, or that the Bush administration lied about WMD, or the LBJ administration lied about the GofT, or that I reject the official narrative about who was responsible for the anthrax attacks that were carried out soon after 9/11, or the Obama administration lied about the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime? If I had this so-called “iron sphere” of protective armor, none of these things should have been able to penetrate it.

No, it has nothing to do with an impenetrable suit of armor. It has more to do with the requirement that a preponderance of evidence is needed to tip the scales in favour of one direction, rather than the other. I tend to accept that all these other incidents occurred because there was a preponderance of evidence to support it. That’s not the case for the LIHOP or MIHOP propositions. As I’ve indicated before, while I support an independent investigation into the role the Israelis played before, during, and after the events on 9/11, I am still skeptical of these propositions put forward by the TM.

What would it take to convince me? To begin with, a lengthy rebuttal of Ryan Mackey’s 306-page paper, “Debunking 9/11 Debunking.” Specifically, I would like to see someone provide a detailed response to each of the following criticisms he makes regarding several of DRG’s claims:

As we come to the end of this long section, let us summarize and correct the many and repeated errors made by Dr. Griffin:
 While rare, progressive collapse is a danger long understood by the structural engineering community, and not a new concept invented by NIST.

 NIST did not need to consider the late stages of building collapse in any detail, since earlier calculations demonstrated a total collapse was virtually inevitable once the impact floors collapsed.

 A total collapse is expected even without any damage or significant heating to areas well below the impact floors, because even if undamaged, the lower floors are not strong enough to dissipate the momentum of the falling section.

 Dr. Griffin’s claims that the collapses took 9 and 11 seconds are based on a misreading of the NIST FAQ, and video confirms that the collapses took several seconds longer, which is not “faster than free-fall” or even “virtually free-fall.”

 Dr. Griffin’s estimate of 45 seconds for total collapse is based on his unsupported estimate of one half-second per floor, and his belief that the collapse would not accelerate, somehow counteracting the acceleration due to gravity.

 The only support for his 45-second collapse time comes from Dr. Wood, whose analysis violates conservation of momentum and is totally indefensible.

 While it is true that some mass was lost in the form of dust, analysis of the dust reveals few heavy construction materials, and there is no evidence that this was a significant effect with respect to collapse time or speed.

 There is no credible evidence for explosions as the towers collapsed.

Each of the points he makes above are falsifiable and therefore easily refuted by those who have a sounder knowledge of physics, especially structural engineering, than Mackey does.

Finally, I’d like to see DRG finally accept an invitation to debate Ryan Mackey in an open forum… and debate these facts… and may the best man win!

LIHOP ?? MIHOP??
I don’t eat pancakes.

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are referring to.

If it’s about 9/11, I have not spent much time and effort researching the topic, nor do I feel a compelling need to do so. I know the US-Israel government narrative is a fraud; I don’t know exactly what happened and who did it; I do know it did not happen as government sources / elites have claimed it did — this Panorama video docu iimplicates neocons persuasively http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8581.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilA-ZeBUI4#t=81

I do know that Benjamin Netanyahu & his father, whom Avigail Abarbanel has diagnosed as a psychopath, rolled out the blueprint for the GWOT in July 1979, so I consider 9/11 and all that flows from it one more element in the 100-year long zionist criminal enterprise (just listened to Jeff Gates discuss his book, Guilt By Association — useful information:)

–

On a related topic — there’s an interesting discussion at SicSemperTyrannis — http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/04/syrian-iraqi-armies-launch-joint-campaign-to-defeat-isis-analysis-ttg.html

The basis is a report from Al Masdar News that the Iraqi army and Assad’s Syrian Army are working together, from opposite directions, to drive ISIS out of Syrian desert regions:

The SAA continues their offensive from Palmyra towards Deir Ez-Zor while the Iraqi Army and Popular Mobilization Forces have taken Hit and are on the outskirts of Al-Baghdadi. The goal is to meet up at the border crossing at Al-Qa’im.

It is claimed that the ambitious scheme is coordinated by Tehran.

The participants on Lang’s blog are knowledgeable and credible –unlike Lisa Curtis on C Span this morning.
When John Kerry’s feverish diplomacy with Russia concerning Syria, is viewed through Moon of Alabama’s perspective, http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/04/syria-russia-rejects-kerrys-new-attempts-to-shield-the-terrorists.html

and combined with the Al Masdar News report, qualified by the expressed skepticism and nuanced explanations offered by SicSemperTyrannis participants, especially Twisted Genius, who is active military I believe;

and Babak Makkinejad http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/04/syrian-iraqi-armies-launch-joint-campaign-to-defeat-isis-analysis-ttg.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef01bb08f249fb970d ,

one begins to understand why the Washington elite – C-Span propaganda machine felt compelled to call upon the Heritage Foundation representative to reinforce in the great unwashed the cognitive distortions that Syria, Russia, Iran = evil and USA, Israel are on the side of the angels.

UTYour Holocaust advertisement example suggests a big retreat by you from a more extravagant full blown attack on media. After all there is nothing hidden about such formal or informal rules. In sime countries it is a matter of necessarily public legislation. In others it is current PC, also well known. It is also well known thst other countries and cultures contest the conventional Western view of the Holocaust. So it really falls within the general range of exceptions to the free speech rules that all Western countries follow in some degree, though without full blooded First Amendment protection.

Truther views if the media involve much more profound mind control! And mind control is very far from achieved with a majority of the media people I know. Many would rejoice in shamelessly saying “I was totally wrong in my rejection of the story that a travelling band of Transgender comedians was used to infiltrate the WTC unnoticed and plant the thermite bit by bit from their makeup bags”.

And the answer to that question is a simple one: investigating a subject sufficiently well to be in a position to draw the proper conclusions, on the basis of the available evidence.

Which I have done since about 2009. Leading me to the inescapable conclusion (based on mathematical equations and hypotheses about physical events and their causes) confirms that like Santa Clause and Alice In Wonderland, the official version of 9/11 is a fairy tale. That and nothing more.

If someone with all the high-level access, skills, and connections of Lisa Curtis, and the Powellian credibility factor of C Span, can lie to you so blatantly, why should you believe or entrust your cognitive health to anybody in similar positions, including wrt 9/11?

So which of the two hypotheses – LIHOP or MIHOP – do you subscribe to, S2C, and why? Also, please cite the evidence upon which you base your preferred hypothesis.

So tell me geo, how in hell does one go about unlearning what he’s learned

.

Well, CP, since we’re not talking about mathematical equations but hypotheses about physical events and their causes, I think it’s more accurate to ask “how in hell does one go about unbelieving what one’s come to believe?”

And the answer to that question is a simple one: investigating a subject sufficiently well to be in a position to draw the proper conclusions, on the basis of the available evidence.

The facts are pigs can’t fly. Steel buildings don’t vaporize from the inside out instantaneously. There is no rationalization that can make that impossibility into a possibility. No. It can not happen.

Look, Rurik, as you know, we’ve already thoroughly debated this issue on another thread. Rather than rehashing it here, suffice to say that I cited the evidence presented by a rocket scientist at NASA (Ryan Mackey) who says it can happen and provides the scientific explanation for how it happened, in painstaking detail. He rebuts each and every one of the Truthers “what about this” points, on the basis of the available evidence and using the principles of structural engineering.

I highly recommend UNZ readers to go through it, all of it, to reach their own conclusions.

https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/ryanmackey

As far as the Holocaust is concerned, I am sure its really a question of time, time over which it fades from common memory to the point where excoriating its details, even irreverently, will be ‘Art’ as well, although I hardly think its going to take a couple of millenia.

I would bet my pay-day loan profits on it. After several thousand years, millions of well-intentioned Christians recite the miracle of the Garden of Eden, the Virgin Birth, and Jews fleeing Egypt by way of the Red Sea and on dry land as gospel truth. For the same reason they believe hundreds of other tall tales written down by Jewish scribes and trotted out to the gullible fact. Which maybe partially explains why large numbers of dim-wits among us accept the 9/11 fairly tale as proven fact.

Retroprojection is the equivalent of rejection.

So tell me geo, how in hell does one go about unlearning what he’s learned. For instance, I’m struggling right now with trying to unlearn what I learned about the holohoax. And to make matters worse, just a few days ago, a friend of mine told me I’d just as well stop trying, accompanied by a quote uttered by some obscure thinker that went something like; “Once expanded the human mind can be contracted again.” So what am I supposed to do?

Orange juice, Vix and a sufficient quantity of cynicism. Nevertheless, a very well expressed post.

Must reading for those who still believe Israel never has and “would not be the first to introduce” nukes to ME:

Eric Margolis: Remember the Golan Heights?

During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Syrian forces had surprised Israel and were fast approaching the edge of the steep Golan Heights, captured by Israel during the 1967 war. It seemed as if Syrian armor and infantry would retake Golan, then pour down into Israeli Galilee.

Soviet recon satellites observed Israel moving its nuclear-armed, 500km-range Jericho missiles out of protective caves and onto their launch pads. At the same time, Israel was seen loading nuclear bombs on their US-supplied F-4 fighter-bombers at Tel Nof airbase.

Believing Israel was about to use nuclear weapons against Syria and Egypt, Moscow put huge pressure on both to rein in their advancing forces. Damascus, already in range of Israeli artillery on Golan, ordered its armored forces on Golan to halt, allowing Israel to mount powerful counter-attacks and retake the strategic heights.

Well duke you do sorta make a point, but why can’t we all just settle on condemning the entire 9/11 narrative for the fairy tale it is. What’s the point of hammering away on specific details of a story containing gaps and holes large enough to drive an aircraft carrier through? Immature kids might argue over the exact size and location of the bean-stalk that jack climbed, but is that a conversation any adult with an IQ larger than his waist size would engage in?

Rurik,

re: the Holocaust, I will freely concede that I am prickly, and only so for the reason of hearing first-hand accounts of it from my grandmother. Stories like those are not easily compartmentalised in the human brain. To repeat my stand on the matter, it is of small importance to me what the precise number of Jews killed were [6m or 600k]; the fact is a great many souls were were sent on their way to meet the Maker. So, Jews remember their own, and so should Russians, Germans, Poles, Norwegians, etc., the reason being obvious: a cautionary device that serves as a reminder against repetition.

I don’t count myself amongst those who would see the destruction of religion [by Marxists and Trotskyites], of institutions, of culture, of common memory, as if by merely doing so, one rapidly summons great ‘good’ – without bothering to define this ‘good’. The Marxists in particular, you’ll notice, need to be a bit savage. To paraphrase Keynes, it isn’t quite enough for them to love their fellow men, but rather compulsory that the cadre possess a certain hatred for them as well. And that, I might posit, is the source of savaging the idea of the Christ; after two thousand years its all ‘Art’.

As far as the Holocaust is concerned, I am sure its really a question of time, time over which it fades from common memory to the point where excoriating its details, even irreverently, will be ‘Art’ as well, although I hardly think its going to take a couple of millenia.

When dealing with a pair of pseudo-intellectuals, i do tend to use one fifty-dollar word to replace half a dozen $5 words.

The word ‘Projection’ is available cost-free, and duly applied.
cheers.

Despite my friends generally regarding our ABC, like the BBC, as left wing, it is at least independent of those who would try to use money to buy favour.

what I’m saying Wizard is that the press in the West is not controlled by people with lots of money per se. Rather the press in the West has become controlled by the state. If I wanted to run an ad doubting some aspect of the Holocaust, there is no mainstream media outlet in the controlled West that would allow me to do that. I could show “art” like a crucifix in a bucket of piss, and I’d be celebrated, but to question some aspect of the Holocaust will not be tolerated in the Western press for any amount of money.

Here’s a video that sort of lays it all out..

The conclusion we draw from this portrait is that he still hasn’t escaped, even though he seems to know he should.

Escaped from what — from belief in the government narrative or from a belief that the government narrative is false?

–

The Four Horseman video documentary opens with an introduction of the concept of “controlling the cognitive map.” –

“Elites try to stay in power; they do so not only by controlling the means of production but by controlling the cognitive map — the way we think. What really matters in that regard is not so much what is said in public but what is left undebated, unsaid.

“For centuries gatekeepers have manipulated our cognitive map.”

In 1989, when the WorldWideWeb went public, “a tsunami of information became freely available. . . an event as momentous as Gutenberg’s press [in Western Europe].”

Think of the WWW as a kind of antibiotic.

If one can view the government narrative as the ongoing effort by elites to control the cognitive map as a viral infection; and conceptualize Avery’s work to resist or expel that infection, then perhaps his current state of confusion is the result of failing to take the full cycle of antibiotics; or perhaps antibiotics have lost their effectiveness through overuse.

Poor Avery is in a state where he can’t be certain if he’s got a viral infection or if he’s relieved of it.

I’m no physician; I still use the peasant remedies learned from my Mother: hot orange juice, honey and whiskey; a salt bag around the throat; Vicks Vapo-Rub in a tea kettle of water on a hot plate to steam the room, and under the covers until the germs are sweated out, that’s the ticket.

Or you can inoculate yourself. I recommend the C Span vaccine: its advantages are that it is deemed the “most trustworthy” of all American media outlets. Take this dose, for example: Lisa Curtis of Heritage Foundation holding forth on what the US should do to “defeat ISIS” in Syria.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?408478-3/washington-journal-lisa-curtis-us-strategy-isis

Take notes; put the conversation under the microscope; count the germs, assess their character. Observe how your cognitive immune system responds.
A few examples:

“US is adopting the Israeli tactic of “knocking on the roof” of locations they intend to destroy.”
What does your immune system (aka value system) think of that?

~30 min, “Russia is not helpful in this fight; the Russians do not share our goals.”
Test that against some other medicines, like Moon of Alabama, for instance — http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/04/syria-russia-rejects-kerrys-new-attempts-to-shield-the-terrorists.html
Which internet/antibiotic seems to have the purest ingredients, more likely to cure what ails your cognitive map?

31 min into the interview a caller identified himself as a WWII veteran and asserted that “Saddam was killed by his own people.”
Curtis agreed: “The people of Iraq hated Saddam, they really hated him. The USA hunted him down, then the Iraqi people tried him and executed him.”

Is that the reality, or did Curtis just administer a booster shot to a poison pill?
If the “people of Iraq” hated Saddam so intensely, why did he remain alive from 1991, when G H W Bush & his team were “99% certain the people of Iraq would side with US and overthrow Saddam,” until the last day of 2006 when Saddam was hanged?

Why did it take US operatives to find Saddam rather than the Iraqi people?
That little germ is cognitively toxic, Ms. Curtis. Bad medicine.

What are Curtis’s credentials? Anyone can mouth off, but not everyone gets on C Span, and C Span is supposed to be the best.
Curtis is from Fort Wayne, Indiana — salt of the earth stuff; soft voice, matronly demeanor. She works for Heritage Foundation; she was on Richard Lugar’s staff; she’s worked in Senate Foreign Relations and for State Department on South Asia affairs. She’s no dummy and she’s plugged in. She’s got a terrific bedside manner.

If someone with all the high-level access, skills, and connections of Lisa Curtis, and the Powellian credibility factor of C Span, can lie to you so blatantly, why should you believe or entrust your cognitive health to anybody in similar positions, including wrt 9/11?

That’s just 30 minutes of exposure to one low-level medic operating out of a very high-level US government cognitive map-adjustment facility, C Span. If your granddaughter were sick, would you take her to the equivalent of (Dr.) Lisa Curtis at the C Span wellness center?

Try the orange juice and Vicks.

Forget about what I have to tell you. Let’s listen to what Dylan Avery, the creator of the Loose Change films, has to say

Why?!

did he come up with some evidence for how pigs can fly?

“I don’t think Bush could plan a bowl of cereal,” he says.

OH!!

Well, that changes everything!

If Bush is a (universally considered) imbecile, then of course pigs can fly!

I guess the assumption is that if the chimp didn’t personally orchestrate the entire thing = then it must have been the man in the cave in Afghanistan with the laptop and his nineteen henchmen (who couldn’t fly a Cessna)!

If Bush didn’t shut down NORAD and SACs = then it must have been Osama!

If Bush didn’t wire the buildings for demolition personally, or at least supervise it all = then it must have been Osama!

Geo, nobody cares what one guy has to say. There is no one person of persons upon whom the whole truth movement is hinged. Individuals and personalities don’t matter one whit. There are charlatans and opportunists everywhere on every issue. Who gives a damn if one of them careens into ‘pigs can fly!’, and then back to ‘no they can’t, and then back to ‘yes they can’. It has exactly zero bearing on anything.

The facts are pigs can’t fly. Steel buildings don’t vaporize from the inside out instantaneously. There is no rationalization that can make that impossibility into a possibility. No. It can not happen. And no amount of celebrities or academics or ‘scientists or politicians or movie makers can change that.

That’s where we are. Pigs can’t fly.

I’ve never been a journalist but I’ve known hundreds of then (including TV journalists, presenters and producers, and editors) some of them very well. Some lazily decide to accept the advantages they think are available to them by not upsetting ministers or their senior staff but the general rule, at least in Australia, is that they are competitive and therefore keen to be the ones who disclose something big and different. Despite my friends generally regarding our ABC, like the BBC, as left wing, it is at least independent of those who would try to use money to buy favour.

For example, why not simply write or say: alleged hi-jackers, alleged terrorist, alleged holocaust…

I think we’re moving in that direction Carroll, but I also believe it’s a little drastic to hope for some of these people to start openly doubting the holy Holocaust. Which is of course, the very foundation of the religion of the West these days. We’re all supposed to genuflect to the ‘six million’, and wallow in contrition for what ‘we’ve’ done. Just look at any who don’t blubber their fealty to the holy Holocaust. Men like Jean-Marie Le Pen are smeared and charged and fined (just recently another €30,000)- not for doubting the gas chambers, but for simply suggesting they weren’t the defining moment in human history.

Some sixty million+ people were slaughtered or burned alive or raped and hacked to pieces in that Jewish/banker/Zionist orchestrated collective insanity- yet the people of the West are warned not to honor the memory of our ancestors who died so horribly and heroically, because the imposed narrative (under threat of arrest and prison) is that evil Germans and assorted evil white Christians tried to kill god on earth (because we’re fundamentally evil). And we must all stare aghast at what we’ve done, and must be punished accordingly by being slowly genocided and spiritually bludgeoned with guilt so that Never Again! can white folks be allowed to control their own destiny.

If they suspect you of trying to denigrate this enforced religion of the West, you’ll get the David Duke treatment and be scourged and hounded from all corners (if not fined and jailed in many countries of the dying [being murdered] West). Same with doubting 911. That handiwork of theirs was quite the gamble, and they’re betting on being able to bribe and bully this atrocity into yet another victory over the stupid goyim.

So I’m satisfied at the tepid if somewhat nuanced take on these things by men like Giraldi, even if it seems a little mousy. I’m saying these things anonymously, and I have little to lose by doing so, so I’ll accept that people like Phil and Ron Paul and others are simply not willing to give the rebel yell and tell these assorted liars and intellectual thugs to eat shit, because they have too much to lose by doing so, and the collective narrative is not quite ready for that yet.

But we’re getting there Carroll. We’re getting there

Like H. L. Mencken i prefer American English to that of the King, or your bloody Quean for that matter. When dealing with a pair of pseudo-intellectuals, i do tend to use one fifty-dollar word to replace half a dozen $5 words. Unfortunately, they went whistling over your head.

Fascinating. Wasn’t aware of this. Thanks Geo.

If you want to tell us that pigs can fly (to use JR’s analogy), then we need some proof of this. Otherwise, we’re saying the official account is bullshit.

Forget about what I have to tell you. Let’s listen to what Dylan Avery, the creator of the Loose Change films, has to say about the MIHOP hypothesis:

And though questions still linger about 9/11,… he no longer tortures himself with speculation. “In my truly angry times, in 2005 or 2006, if you asked if the Bush administration planned the attacks, I would have said, ‘Fuck yeah’.”

But now?

“I don’t think Bush could plan a bowl of cereal,” he says.

http://www.vocativ.com/usa/us-politics/rapid-rise-fall-dylan-avery/

Here’s a glimpse into Dylan Avery’s recovery process:

The Conspiracy Hangover (p.52 of 83)

“Dude, I said that in 2005. I said that in 2005, you guys on the Internet are still bickering over things I said six years ago! … You have no life. You have no life. You have no life.” – Dylan Avery, 11 September 2011

Naturally, there is a downside to the mnemonic appeal used by the Truth Movement. Now that the conspiracy theory has peaked, many Truthers find it incredibly difficult to walk away, or even to change their beliefs. Their behavior in these final stages of the conspiracy theory provides additional evidence of mental fixation brought about and encouraged by the Internet. This fixation can go far beyond the usual limits of stubbornness or even obsessive-compulsive behavior. If anything, it more closely resembles an addiction.

Dylan Avery gives us a particularly crisp example. After the debacle of Loose Change: Final Cut, he announced his departure from the Truth Movement, intending to move on to more ordinary film projects. At the time, there were those who doubted he had ever been a Truther to begin with, instead suspecting he had merely exploited the Movement to make a name for himself. Likewise, there were skeptics who argued he had only been in it for the money, and was now departing after his gamble had failed. But whatever his true motivation, it was called The Final Cut long before it flopped – come success or failure, it was time to move on.

Except he returned soon afterward. In September 2009 he created yet another version, called Loose Change: An American Coup, which was no more successful than its predecessor. And in September 2011 he recanted again, telling Jeremy Stahl that he was now merely focused on why the Government hadn’t prevented the (presumably legitimate) terrorist attack, a position completely incompatible with tales of missing jetliners, explosives, and international media complicity featured in his movies. He remarks that he had been “sucked in” much more than he should have been. Later, when asked in person to clarify his new ideas at the tenth anniversary memorial, he merely stated that he believed in a cover-up, and beyond that, “what I believe doesn’t matter… I don’t use ‘inside job.’” The conclusion we draw from this portrait is that he still hasn’t escaped, even though he seems to know he should.

http://www.911myths.com/tgitc_1_0_final.pdf

Idiots. Don’t think the Donald will care.

I agree with you Rurik. It puzzles me why fence straddling columnist who would like to avoid being banished into everlasting obscurity by the Establish, while at the same time, wishing to appear honest and on the level to un-brainwashed readers, would not simply insert the word alleged immediately in front of all statements of “fact” incessantly repeated as such by Establishment propagandist who are paid big money for doing just that. For example, why not simply write or say: alleged hi-jackers, alleged terrorist, alleged holocaust, alleged 6 million etc. etc. The long and short of it, is that nothing becomes a fact simply because MSM hacks and government propagandist report it as fact.

I disagree. In order for a tipping point of awareness to be reached amongst the general public there first has to be an complete awareness of the impossibility of the official narrative and anger at being lied to. Only then can there be a groundswell of demand for a new and open investigation.

The WTC 7 collapse, the pictures taken immediately after the Pentagon attack and the total absence of any debris at Shanksville serve to do just that, if you believe you eyes, that is.

Though admittedly a neologism, “academicist” succinctly describes one who is ensorcelled by the poses and pretenses of the academic world, particularly those who proudly claim the status of “social scientists”

and

word salad, as he terms intellectualized discourse.

Oh I say, please do stop, won’t you?!!! LMAO

“word salad” was clearly unequal to the task at hand; more like last week’s dead mutton with Haggis. Pray where do you get these words?

For your benefit I blockquote from Fowler’s “King’s English”

Any one who wishes to become a good writer should endeavour, before he allows himself to be tempted by the more showy qualities, to be direct, simple, brief, vigorous, and lucid.
This general principle may be translated into practical rules in the domain of vocabulary as follows :
1.Prefer the familiar word to the far-fetched.
2.Prefer the concrete word to the abstract.
3.Prefer the single word to the circumlocution.
4.Prefer the short word to the long.
5.Prefer the Saxon word to the Romance.

Also, I don’t do social science, God’s work more like it. And I think we all are getting rather a suntan by the rays of your intellect.

Perhaps i should have signified MAJOR institution. You had to dig deep for that one. Just goes to tell.

A bit of advise for Sam the Sham from Bob Dylan: “He not busy being born is busy dying”.

Personal creed: Oh my. Don’t think i have one. Classically i am NOT a believer.

One of my friends happens to be a recovering Trotskyite ~ though still an ardent Marxist. He is also a Positivist, an Existentialist and a “scientific materialist”. He believes there are no such phenomena as chemtrails. He also believes the official government/MSmedia conspiracy theory of 19 Arabs with boxcutters magically able to shut down U$ air defenses for upwards of two hours. He may even believe that Mohammed Atta’s pristine passport magically wafted down on the sidewalks of New York on 911. He most manifestly does NOT believe in any such “silliness” as reincarnation or anything quite as “unscientific” as spirituality. Yet, despite numerous quarrels, we do remain friends.

My friend does have problems with the dislodgement of materialist viewpoints by the majority of quantum physicists. My friend, now approaching his mid seventies, recently blurted out to me that “I’m getting old”. You see, he believes that any possible afterlife and interdimensional possibility are nothing but fictions. He lives in fear of his own future.

Sam the Sham prefers meat hot off the barbie to word salad, as he terms intellectualized discourse. Sad.

Hah! Sam the Sham finds a hook. Some folks (usually P.C. types) call that ageism. In this instance they are on target. So who’s upset already? It upsets Sam that i’m calling his sham. Somehow he manages to equate a single propensity towards Anglicized spelling with cholera? Somebody’s a bit short on original ideas, methinks.

Though admittedly a neologism, “academicist” succinctly describes one who is ensorcelled by the poses and pretenses of the academic world, particularly those who proudly claim the status of “social scientists”. The very term is totally oxymoronic and most academics (with numerous exceptions among those who ply the pathways of hard sciences) as well as them that have lost their capacity for discernment as well as any claim to common sense are firmly attached to the intellectual deficiencies revealed by a desperate clinging to false standards of social analysis.

[Try and name me one institution which is not filled with careerists, climbers and clingers and i’ll shoot that argument down so fast ,,,]

The Buddhist Association of America?

Lo, the mighty ADL has spoken. Pay close attention.

http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/anti-semitism-usa/adl-urges-donald-trump-to-reconsider-america-first.html

That’s 6 Catholics and 3 Jews, with a 4th Jew to be added within the next few months. Resulting in that most curious of statistics relating to Jews, who represent less than 2% of the US population, comprising 44 percent of the Supreme Court judges who make final decisions connected with contentious issues that directly affect 100 percent of the American people. As to changes in legal philosophy obtain a 1930 and a 20012 edition law dictionary and take a look at the drastic changes that have been made in legal definitions too numerous to mention. As to law schools with which I am familiar, I am familiar with the Law School of common Sense which I attended for the past 75 years, and one which you obviously know nothing about.

Mid-Springtime is a busy season on the homestead. Still wood to cut and stack. Rockwork to be done. Gardening. Raking. It goes on and on. So i try to stick to current material in my net time. Perhaps in mid-Summer when things have slowed down i’ll find the time to check up on some of those 607 articles. I know that i have already read some of Giraldi’s work on various alternative sites. Thanx for the link.

They should have discovered that jet fuel melts steel so quickly and easily, at a much earlier date. Might have saved the steel industry in this country with its sheer innovation. Does anyone REALLY believe 19 Arabs (many of whom were still alive years later, and the country of Saudi Arabia sued the FBI over their misidentity) with box cutters subdued all the passengers including rather tall and hefty men (one of whom was an American with dual Israeli citizenship, and was a trained assassin) and all this orchestrated by a lone critter (and old Bush family buddy) OBL, dying of diabetes in a cave in Afghanistan. Truly, future generations will curse us when they are finished laughing at us, for us letting our “leaders” lead us into temptation and hell.
This was a freaking Hollyweird script. You can just see them sitting around thinking up “let it roll” dialogue and good Christian American folk heroes whose families are oddly forgotten. I don’t know exactly what brought the towers down, but down they were, in about the two minutes it took me to glance at the tv screen as my government building was being evacuated. I think I believed the official story for about 2 days.

Doesn’t always does it?

Well I suppose the ending words of Billie Jean then, for old stickman to listen to?

“..strong advice, remember to always think twice”

Will the missing 28 pages prove a controlled demolition, the planes were actually holographic, the towers were painted in nano-thermite, and that jet fuel totally doesn’t melt steel?

/sarcasm

LOL. It actually brings back memories of operattas with granny; she was Pangloss to my Candide, according to some!

here your [partial] quote

I am sure you knew, as I do, journalists, editors and producers who are financially independent enough to pursue their principled aims and dreams and who, just as a member of the Bar may proudly uphold the great traditions of ensuring representation even for the reviled, rejoice in the valiant-for-truth role of the investigative journalist

then I posted a picture of Michael Hastings to underscore “the valiant-for-truth role of the investigative journalist”. Because he was murdered for real investigative journalism, and his murder covered up by the murderers and his employer, The Rolling Stones ragazine.

I did that to point out the level of principled and independent journalism today, when the best of them are burned alive for asking the wrong questions. And then where are all the “journalists, editors and producers who are financially independent enough to pursue their principled” traditions of finding out what happened to one of their own? Why hasn’t there been one mainstream investigative journalist willing to look into that story? Eh wiz?

Any thoughts on that?

as for the last link, just try it again. Sometimes it takes twice clicking on it. It’s an image of the NYT reporting on Syria’s use of chemical weapons that like everything else, the NYT lies about.

That’s what our mainstream journalists do today. They tell official lies and run cover for the super-criminals and war pigs running the fecal gov. Wouldn’t you agree?

Now Sam, please don’t assume that age brings wisdom or discretion. Plenty of the elderly are just erratic old cranks.

‘Not enough evidence

but that’s what we’re saying Geo

that’s our point! We’re being expected to believe an outrageously ludicrous absurdity. That a steel and concrete building can >poof< into nothing because some office furniture was on fire. And that journalists can know before it happed that it's going to happen, just well.. they all guessed it! Yea, they just were really lucky, and guessed that this impossibility would happen right {before} it did.

What we're saying is that is preposterous, and that we're not bloody fools. If you want to tell us that pigs can fly (to use JR's analogy), then we need some proof of this. Otherwise, we're saying the official account is bullshit.

That's all.

Of course I agree with what you have written – except for “where a diverse, well-informed, readership keeps nonsense at bay” – because sadly I think only Dr Pangloss could ignore the swarming of ever more maddies to UR, Stickman and NosytheDuke being the latest without displacing any of the old screamers.

I see in your links two pictures of people who presumably you cite irrelevantly as exceptions to my merely ststistical generalisations and one link that is a dud and won’t work. Would you care to expose further the eorkings of your own mind on my argument?

With Scalia still on SCOTUS there were 6 Catholics out of 9 judges.

How does that fit with your thesis about Zionist control?

And what subjects and what doctrines in law schools do you say are dictated by Zionist Jews? I am not aware for example of any changes over 120 years or so in the teaching of subjects that I used to teach like Legal History (Magna Carta, Statute of Uses, Chancery courts jurisdiction etc etc), Contract, Torts, etc. so what are you saying? What law school did you attend? With which are you familiar?

Would you care to spell out the part played by Zionist Jews in Pearl Harbour given with names, motives and methods?

Presumably you start with the common view that Roosevelt wanted to get the US into the war started by Germany and that the Axis agreement made provocation of Japan (albeit well justified by Japan’s treatment of China) a workable way to go. Whether he knew any detail about the actual attack beforehand isn’t critical to this thesis is it? Obviously Jews in America would have supported Roosevelt’s foreign policy but who were your Zionist Jews and how did they insert themselves into the action do as to bring about Pearl Harbour?

And what did they have to do with JFK’s murder snd why?

As to whether a plane or a missile struck the Pentagon, or whether an airliner crashed into the ground near Somerset, PA is immaterial. Arguing over specific details that can never be proven one way or the other distracts from the fact that 9/11 was an inside job, the details of which will never be known or understood unless a meaningful investigation is conducted by those not involved in the crime. Since they accomplish nothing, endless haggling over questionable details should stop.

gramps,
Here it is all in one article, with no wild theories etc. As I said in an earlier post, all the main participates are known and many of the details. The only thing lacking is a real investigation. Which will not occur as long as the perpetuators of the crime remain in charge of investigating themselves. It’s that simple. https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

Geokat still has panties in a knot…

How did you know I wore panties? I thought you said you were a former journalist, but I’m starting to suspect you’re just a replacement for Edward Snowden’s old job at the NSA.

Giraldi and i had a brief exchange of notes after all of that and i can say that we arrived at a form of modus vivendi.

Glad to hear it.

Geo cannot get his hooks out of this new poster who has not yet paid his full dues as a member of the ‘fraternity’.

Since you reached a rapprochement with Giraldi, consider the hooks officially removed.

Another atheist philosopher?

Now, with respect to the remainder of your post, I haven’t the foggiest idea what your talking about. Care to clearly state what your personal creed is with respect to science and religion?

Suspicious looking word salad and I am not a buyer. Perhaps you smoked it earlier, mate.