Assassin’s Creed Odyssey’s latest DLC forces something on the player (open spoilers inside)

[Persephone]

I still don't understand
1) Encounter Darius son.
2)Love him
3) Have a baby
4) Will leave him in episode 3 obviously
...
?) Stay in Atlantis

between 4) and ?) it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to think Kassandra find the greatest love with another woman?

do you know the definition of the word lesbian or

edit: also the sheer MISOGYNY in having canon character be Kassandra and then say she's "growing up" by popping out babies. yeah saving the world from an insane cult didn't make her grow up. reuniting her family through sheer badassery and force of will didn't make her grow up. but babies sure will! fuck offff

 

[ckareset]

From m

...so what? Baby birth like Anakin with midichlorians? Wtf.

"Desmond, we have learn the first pieces of your lineage. A staff."
Seriously...
I understand why some are angry about ubi choices here, i truly do. But since they said at E3 "you will choose the gender and the relationships" i keep saying "wait...it's not logical...right?From a lore point of view."

The only way to prevent this and let the player choose is for Kassandra to have a brother or a sister with Isu DNA too that would be heterosexual. Ubi could have done that.

Im totally lost on the lore. Why is a child needed in the first place?

 

[Ferrs]

...so what? Baby birth like Anakin with midichlorians? Wtf.

"Desmond, we have learn the first pieces of your lineage. A staff."
Seriously...
I understand why some are angry about ubi choices here, i truly do. But since they said at E3 "you will choose the gender and the relationships" i keep saying "wait...it's not logical...right?From a lore point of view."

The only way to prevent this and let the player choose is for Kassandra to have a brother or a sister with Isu DNA too that would be heterosexual. Ubi could have done that.

well was it that hard to come with something else? you already came up with one solution and you aren't even a writer, imagine a profesional writer if they cared about it.

The problem is whoever wrote the DLC didn't care.

 

[Eumi]

I still don't understand
1) Encounter Darius son.
2)Love him
3) Have a baby
4) Will leave him in episode 3 obviously
...
?) Stay in Atlantis

between 4) and ?) it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to think Kassandra find the greatest love with another woman?

Because people do not want their lesbian character to sleep with a man.

How much simpler do you need this? Again, maybe you just cannot empathise. But how on earth can you not understand?

Like, legitimate question, do you just not care about their opinions? Do you not care that something people enjoyed, something that really did mean something to them, has been taken from them?

 

[Kylo Rey]

do you know the definition of the word lesbian or

But in the lore she's bisexual :/
I mean i'm not showing the lore at the "bible".
I understand your point. It's just that if Kassandra don't have any child , then no lineage, no games.

Does this means that every characters in every games will have a baby ? If he/she don't have any brother/sisters...yes

Sadly

 

[Melpontro]

Only reason i buy gold editions day one. If they kill the modern day stuff, ill quit the series. Its a love/hate relationship with how ubisoft is treating the lore.

Yup. They consistently do things that drive me insane, but the lore is main hook for me.

 

[Vire]

I just don’t understand why you give players romance options if you are just going to inevitably take it away later and say the choice was irrelevant.

It sounds like a different studio developed the DLC.

 

[Kafkaa]

But in the lore she's bisexual :/
I mean i'm not showing the lore at the "bible".
I understand your point. It's just that if Kassandra don't have any child , then no lineage, no games.

Does this means that every characters in every games will have a baby ? If he/she don't have any brother/sisters...yes

Sadly

Just where exactly are you pulling this notion that Kassandra or Alexios are supposed to canon bisexual?

 

[Ferrs]

It sounds like a different studio developed the DLC.

That's the case. The main game writter already said she didn't work on it.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Because people do not want their lesbian character to sleep with a man.

How much simpler do you need this? Again, maybe you just cannot empathise. But how on earth can you not understand?

Like, legitimate question, do you just not care about their opinions? Do you not care that something people enjoyed, something that really did mean something to them, has been taken from them?

I understand this. Maybe they just thought that AC fans would love that Kassandra and Darius lineage would be linked.
But i don't think that ubi did this because they are alt-right guys or "pro-heterosexual relationships".

 

[ckareset]

I just don’t understand why you give players romance options if you are just going to inevitably take it away later and say the choice was irrelevant.

It sounds like a different studio developed the DLC.

Maybe, but the main character having a baby isnt something someone randomly thought out of thin air

 

[Kylo Rey]

Just where exactly are you pulling this notion that Kassandra or Alexios are supposed to canon bisexual?

There was an article someone posted here about this.

 

[Vire]

That's the case. The main game writter already said she didn't work on it.

Yeah I knew it... These kinds of inconsistencies happens when games swap from this persons hand to the next.

The DLC’s for Destiny was filled with all kinds of bullshit because sister studios developed them.

 

[Eumi]

I understand this. Maybe they just thought that AC fans would love that Kassandra and Darius lineage would be linked.
But i don't think that ubi did this because they are alt-right guys or "pro-heterosexual relationships".

Neither do I.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t a fucking problem.

 

[Gradon]

Heteronormativity is so fun ~ 😶😒
This is depressing, the title should really be more descriptive as well, “something” tells you nothing. “Doesn’t respect player chosen sexuality” is more like it. I stumbled in here after seeing the original thread title which made more sense.

I don’t think this was done spitefully or even consciously, it was most likely another writers job who, under heteronormativity didn’t consider us queer folks.

Admittedly I haven’t played Odyssey (I’m playing Syndicate), but I will definitely avoid the DLC now. 😕

 

[Joeku]

who talked about modern stuff?
If Kassandra don't have a baby, then no Ezio etc... ! I mean what the hell?
having a baby with a men don't prevent you to be in love with a woman after! They already stated that even if there is player choice, Kassandra is bisexual.

But in the lore she's bisexual :/
I mean i'm not showing the lore at the "bible".
I understand your point. It's just that if Kassandra don't have any child , then no lineage, no games.

Does this means that every characters in every games will have a baby ? If he/she don't have any brother/sisters...yes

Sadly

You haven't been paying attention to the topic. Alexios and Kassandra aren't part of the old series lineage. The modern day assassins use a new kind of animus that got their DNA right off the spear and got the memories from that. That's why they didn't need to have children at all originally and could be played as completely homosexual.

 

[CenturionNami]

I understand this. Maybe they just thought that AC fans would love that Kassandra and Darius lineage would be linked.
But i don't think that ubi did this because they are alt-right guys or "pro-heterosexual relationships".

It's conversion. Ubisoft is presenting the idea of her growing up, becoming straight and a housewife as that's the normal thing for women to do.

Ubsifot is fucking pushing the alt right agenda with this disgusting fucking game. I hope the author is kicked out of the fucking industry.

Ubisoft you're fucking disgusting.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Heteronormativity is so fun ~ 😶😒
This is depressing, the title should really be more descriptive as well, “something” tells you nothing. “Doesn’t respect player chosen sexuality” is more like it. I stumbled in here after seeing the original thread title which made more sense.

I don’t think this was done spitefully or even consciously, it was most likely another writers job who, under heteronormativity didn’t consider us queer folks.

Admittedly I haven’t played Odyssey (I’m playing Syndicate), but I will definitely avoid the DLC now. 😕

I think avoid a dlc you wanted maybe to buy to see a character teased since AC2 is...sad.
I understand you are angry. Maybe you should wait to see the end of the dlc to see the outcome to this.

 

[Meia]

I understand this. Maybe they just thought that AC fans would love that Kassandra and Darius lineage would be linked.
But i don't think that ubi did this because they are alt-right guys or "pro-heterosexual relationships".

At the same time though, you can't use how progressive your game is as a bullet point in promotion, and then turn around and do this without catching some serious shit.

 

[NinjaDBL]

Ubisoft better patch this shout out soon. This is down right homophobic.

 

[Vire]

Heteronormativity is so fun ~ 😶😒
This is depressing, the title should really be more descriptive as well, “something” tells you nothing. “Doesn’t respect player chosen sexuality” is more like it. I stumbled in here after seeing the original thread title which made more sense.

I don’t think this was done spitefully or even consciously, it was most likely another writers job who, under heteronormativity didn’t consider us queer folks.

Admittedly I haven’t played Odyssey (I’m playing Syndicate), but I will definitely avoid the DLC now. 😕

Here’s the problem, they completely retconned how players got their DNA and relieved their memories. I don’t like that they specifically started changing the rules on the fly but so be it.

Now this second writer comes in and doesn’t realize or forgets this detail (the series has always been about lineage and passing on until this retcon in this game) and boom you have this disaster

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

I get what people are going for here, but I also kind of bristle at the notion that narrative developments should always be player choices. If games are going to have stories, this shit's gonna happen.

Yes, I'm ambivalent about this. Despite the increased role of player choice in Odyssey, Alexios and Kassandra are ultimately still established characters in an established story. This isn't a create-a-character WRPG.

However, I get that why this plot development in particular (being forced into a straight relationship and having a baby) feels like a betrayal to players after the game previously having allowed the player to establish the misthios' sexuality.

 

[Melpontro]

No, they actually transmutated humans who touched the artifacts into living breathing monsters. Aletheia was disgusted by the Olympos Project, it was certainly a real thing and not just a hallucination.

Egh, I'm definitely not a huge fan of that then. I haven't finished that questline completely yet, so I wasn't aware of that revelation. At that point then yeah, you're right that they may as well just do a PoE baby if they really wanted to.

 

[Kylo Rey]

You haven't been paying attention to the topic. Alexios and Kassandra aren't part of the old series lineage. The modern day assassins use a new kind of animus that got their DNA right off the spear and got the memories from that. That's why they didn't need to have children at all originally and could be played as completely homosexual.

...what? Kassandra have the most big amount of Isu DNA inside her. It's obvious that she will have a lineage so other will have ISU DNA inside them...Or it would be...absurd to end the Kassandra lineage her.

It's conversion. Ubisoft is presenting the idea of her growing up, becoming straight and a housewife as that's the normal thing for women to do.

Ubsifot is fucking pushing the alt right agenda with this disgusting fucking game. I hope the author is kicked out of the fucking industry.

Ubisoft you're fucking disgusting.

Are you seriously believe this?

 

[Albatross]

But in the lore she's bisexual :/
I mean i'm not showing the lore at the "bible".
I understand your point. It's just that if Kassandra don't have any child , then no lineage, no games.

Does this means that every characters in every games will have a baby ? If he/she don't have any brother/sisters...yes

Sadly

Please. Stop.
Not only you're embarassing yourself with your headcanon (canon bisexual? all the assassins are her discendants? WTF??) but you've been told multiple times that your handwaving and saying what actual LGBT people should and should not feel is absolutely out of place, if not outright insulting.

 

[Vire]

It's conversion. Ubisoft is presenting the idea of her growing up, becoming straight and a housewife as that's the normal thing for women to do.

Ubsifot is fucking pushing the alt right agenda with this disgusting fucking game. I hope the author is kicked out of the fucking industry.

Ubisoft you're fucking disgusting.

You don’t actually believe this do you? I guarantee it was an oversight due to the retconning or lore and change in hands of writers.

That is ridiculous response.

 

[ΑGITΩ]

who talked about modern stuff?
If Kassandra don't have a baby, then no Ezio etc... ! I mean what the hell?
having a baby with a men don't prevent you to be in love with a woman after! They already stated that even if there is player choice, Kassandra is bisexual.

I dont know if kassandra is part of the Desmond lineage line at all so theres no telling on the Ezio side of things. Lore gets thrown out the window from the get go in Odyssey with the selection of Alexios or Kassandra (part of the reason i am not a fan of the 'historical' storyline of the game to begin with, and only cared about the Atlantis stuff). But i can understand regardless of the choice of the characters being canonically bisexual, or whatever Ubisoft describes is Canon anyway. Though people hate that if they played as Kass and rejected Darius' son and still got impregnated, well look at the "historical" side of things and remove the rose tinted glasses and assumed she got taken advantage of, doesnt make that any less of a possibility. But i say this without having played the DLC yet, but plan to.

 

[Kylo Rey]

At the same time though, you can't use how progressive your game is as a bullet point in promotion, and then turn around and do this without catching some serious shit.

Well people here shouldn't take every ubi workers in the same "trump bag".
I mean apparently the writer of DLC1 is a different person and the DLC was made in another studio.
That doesn't prevent the main team to "control" this but...come on. Everybody in ubisoft are anti-LGBT?

 

[Eoin]

Can we have the first post updated with an explanation that there is zero requirement in the AC lore for the protagonist of Odyssey to have a child?

People are repeatedly misunderstand this and making terrible arguments based on it, thinking that they are making some kind of valid point, and it keeps having to be explained to them that the simulation of the Odyssey protagonist does not rely on the protagonist having a child.

There is a substantive issue to be discussed here, it does not need to be sidelined by constant assumptions and corrections about something as inconsequential as Assassin's Creed lore.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Please. Stop.
Not only you're embarassing yourself with your headcanon (canon bisexual? all the assassins are her discendants? WTF??) but you've been told multiple times that your handwaving and saying what actual LGBT people should and should not feel is absolutely out of place, if not outright insulting.

Ok let me get this straight.
I DON'T WANT KASSANDRA TO SLEPT WITH THIS GUY TOO (and having a baby with him). I would rather like she could love Darius daughter.
So I DON'T LIKE THIS TOO.

Does this DLC mean ubisoft are all bad peoples who voted Trump and they tried to promote heterosexual relationships? NO

 

[CenturionNami]

Ok let me get this straight.
I DON'T WANT KASSANDRA TO SLEPT WITH THIS GUY TOO (and having a baby with him). I would rather like she could love Darius daughter.
So I DON'T LIKE THIS TOO.

Does this DLC mean ubisoft are all bad peoples who voted Trump and they tried to promote heterosexual relationships? NO

It means your fucking tolerating the conversion of a lesbian. You are tolerating a gay character being turned straight to suit the alt right agenda. You find it hot, isn't that why?

 

[Skyebaron]

It's possible if they really do care about representation, that they take the criticism and change it or at the very least say sorry and take it forward for the next game. There are corps that actually do that, like BioWare messed up with Mass Effect Andromeda in not having enough LIs for Gay men plus haveing an achievement for having 3 LIs that gay guys couldn't meet, so they ended up making Jaal bi as a full romance for gay guys, as good as it was for straight women. In the same game they also edited an NPC multiple times due to criticism from the Trans community in order to get it right. So if Ubisoft do truly care there's multiple ways they could make it right. If other companies can do it so can they.

Yure a good person but Im a cynic. Being PC or wholesome with a slice of edgy sells copies so thats what theyll tell you. I hope youre right though.

 

[ΑGITΩ]

I just don’t understand why you give players romance options if you are just going to inevitably take it away later and say the choice was irrelevant.

It sounds like a different studio developed the DLC.

Does any romance option even stick in the main game? Everyone i hooked up with turned into a one night stand before shit hit the fan and they either died or had something happen which soured or friend zoned the relationship.

 

[Kylo Rey]

It means your fucking tolerating the conversion of a lesbian. You are tolerating a gay character being turned straight to suit the alt right agenda. You find it hot, isn't that why?

Come on , stop this...I never said this and i would never think those absurd nonsense stuff.

 

[CopperPuppy]

It's conversion. Ubisoft is presenting the idea of her growing up, becoming straight and a housewife as that's the normal thing for women to do.

Ubsifot is fucking pushing the alt right agenda with this disgusting fucking game. I hope the author is kicked out of the fucking industry.

Ubisoft you're fucking disgusting.

This plot point is bad and I agree wholeheartedly with those condemning it and asking for it to be changed, but this type of post is completely absurd and screams that you not be taken seriously.

 

[Orb]

But i don't think that ubi did this because they are alt-right guys or "pro-heterosexual relationships".

Literally no one in this thread is saying this. (***At the time of your post I quoted.*** Now there is one person. So there you go.)

I think it's time to take a break and realize your perspective is very wrong on this.

 

[rras1994]

It means your fucking tolerating the conversion of a lesbian. You are tolerating a gay character being turned straight to suit the alt right agenda. You find it hot, isn't that why?

Less that and more from previous encounters with this guy he has an unhealthy obsession with anyone criticising this game in any way, and this is turning in this thread to him caring more about the game's feeling rather then the real LGBT people upset about this.

 

[CopperPuppy]

Literally no one in this thread is saying this.

I'm not agreeing with anything Kylo Rey is saying because I frankly don't understand their posts, but there absolutely is someone pushing that theory hard on this very page.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Literally no one in this thread is saying this.

Seriously?

It's conversion. Ubisoft is presenting the idea of her growing up, becoming straight and a housewife as that's the normal thing for women to do.

Ubsifot is fucking pushing the alt right agenda with this disgusting fucking game. I hope the author is kicked out of the fucking industry.

Ubisoft you're fucking disgusting.

 

[Vire]

Can we have the first post updated with an explanation that there is zero requirement in the AC lore for the protagonist of Odyssey to have a child?

People are repeatedly misunderstand this and making terrible arguments based on it, thinking that they are making some kind of valid point, and it keeps having to be explained to them that the simulation of the Odyssey protagonist does not rely on the protagonist having a child.

There is a substantive issue to be discussed here, it does not need to be sidelined by constant assumptions and corrections about something as inconsequential as Assassin's Creed lore.

Because they only recently changed this in this title. There were 11? other AC games where DNA/Memories were passed on through direct lineage.

The story writers can’t even keep their own incredibly dumb story straight.

 

[Orb]

I'm not agreeing with anything Kylo Rey is saying because I frankly don't understand their posts, but there absolutely is someone pushing that theory hard on this very page.

Yeah I just noticed that someone posted that sentiment further down the page from the post I quoted.

So let's go from "literally no one" to "only one person"

 

[Eumi]

Ok let me get this straight.
I DON'T WANT KASSANDRA TO SLEPT WITH THIS GUY TOO (and having a baby with him). I would rather like she could love Darius daughter.
So I DON'T LIKE THIS TOO.

Does this DLC mean ubisoft are all bad peoples who voted Trump and they tried to promote heterosexual relationships? NO

There is a single person in this thread making that bizarre claim.

You don’t actually understand what the issue is here. You’re turning a critique of a narrative choice into an attack on the character of those who made it.

Please stop misrepresenting the issue. It’s very damaging.

 

[SG-17]

Egh, I'm definitely not a huge fan of that then. I haven't finished that questline completely yet, so I wasn't aware of that revelation. At that point then yeah, you're right that they may as well just do a PoE baby if they really wanted to.

The Isu could do a lot of crazy shit, see alternative timelines, alter the fabric of reality to shield the planet, create an entire new species (humans), revive the dead, transmute matter, transfer consciousness, and so on. A PoE baby fits right in to be honest.

 

[Kylo Rey]

I'm not agreeing with anything Kylo Rey is saying because I frankly don't understand their posts, but there absolutely is someone pushing that theory hard on this very page.

It's simple.
As many here i don't like the story choice that was made. It's sad she can't be a lesbian the whole game if i want to as a player.
But since the main story (no DLC) gave so much a big role about her DNA...i wasn"t surprised (but sad) as ubi choice on this.

 

[Ferrs]

Because they only recently changed this in this title. There were 11? other AC games where DNA/Memories were passed on through direct lineage.

The story writers can’t even keep their own incredibly dumb story straight.

They changed it in Origins.

 

[CopperPuppy]

It's simple.
As many here i don't like the story choice that was made. It's sad she can't be a lesbian the whole game if i want to as a player.
But since the main story (no DLC) gave so much a big role about her DNA...i wasn"t surprised (but sad) as ubi choice on this.

I don't know why you keep ignoring this so I'll try to make it as plain as possible: they got Kassandra's and Alexios's DNA from the spear in the main game, NOT a descendant, so there is absolutely nothing narratively requiring them to have a child as you are claiming.

 

[Kylo Rey]

I don't know why you keep ignoring this so I'll try to make it as plain as possible: they got Kassandra's and Alexios's DNA from the spear in the main game, NOT a descendant, so there is absolutely nothing narratively requiring them to have a child as you are claiming.

I understand this.
But since the Kosmos cult tried so hard to capture her, and the Order of the Ancients to destroy her , it's obvious that people like her aren't common.
So you are saying...that Kassandra lineage stopped at Atlantis? For me it doesn't make sense..
So Desmond lineage is from "another one" that have high Isu DNA ?

 

[Z-Beat]

Weird choice to make but not really surprising because the romance system didn't seen like it had much put into it. All the options seem to end after you get to the sex. Did they get more fleshed out later in the game?

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

They should scrap the whole romance stuff in these kind of games tbh (if you can even call them romances, in Odyssey they are flings at best.) I have yet to find a AAA RPG with decent romances.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I understand this.
But since the Kosmos cult tried so hard to capture her, and the Order of the Ancients to destroy her , it's obvious that people like her aren't common.
So you are saying...that Kassandra lineage stopped at Atlantis? For me it doesn't make sense..
So Desmond lineage is from "another one" that have high Isu DNA ?

I think we're done here man, you're just speculating and moving goalposts to try and dismiss others' valid criticism. Just accept that this was a bad move with no justification and move on. You can still like the game and acknowledge that the developers of the DLC made a mistake. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, I would argue that if you do like the game or the series, it's to the benefit of the same to voice valid criticisms when they arise.