177 replies to this topic

[LegateZanUjcic]

Well, the Nords could escape to Sovngarde and the other human races could escape to Oblivion for sure.

[trexalfa]

Continuing with the mysteries of MK's C0DA, the Digitals and Memory come to mind. What they are isn't clear at a first glance. I've seen people equate the Digitals to us from a meta perspective. They know their Lessons, by the way.

[MerchantMudCrab]

Sovngarde is just down the street somewhere on/in Masser anyways. I'm sure there are many mannish spirits on the moons at least anyways. 

[trexalfa]

What a neat metaphor that of Lorkhan's heart hole. It was a cage for the Time Dragon, it always was. When Trinimac removed the Heart of Lorkhan from its chest, and it set for Red Tower, Time estabilized. Thus the Dragon was bound, Time was bound. Now knowing for sure that Talos is Lorkhan, the Thalmor's goal makes loads more sense than before. Bormahu was always a prisioner of Lorkhan.

 

And now I think I got it clear that the Akatosh in MK's C0DA is the Time Dragon Oversoul and not just the Imperial Akatosh. For one, it refers to itself as "we".

Edited by trexalfa, 15 February 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Cider!]

Sovngarde is just down the street somewhere on/in Masser anyways. I'm sure there are many mannish spirits on the moons at least anyways.

Eh? I don't think that's tr- oh well in your C0DA it can be true, though I'll always prefer to have Sovngarde in Aetherius.

Also

YAY WE FINALLY HAVE AN APPEARANCE FOR LORKHAN!

Edited by Cider!, 15 February 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[Doom-DrivenPoster]

What if Mankind ended up in an altered state? Suppose they messed with power they don't understand, and now they're kind of like the Silence from Doctor Who. Memory doesn't recognize them, but they still exist. They're everywhere, but no one recognizes them anymore.

Edited by Doom-DrivenPoster, 15 February 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[InverseDragon]

If SEHT = Lorkhan = Akatosh, then:

 

36 Lessons of Vivec - Book of HOURS

 

Hands of Padhome are hands of clock

 

Number 3 is significant to TES because the hands of a clock = 3 - Hour, Minute, and Second

 

At the time of Morrowind, the Clock had passed the "hour" 3 Times!

 

[Edit: Oh, and New North = New Day, maybe?

 

The Dragon bites its tail at hour 23, minute 59, second 59?

 

The thought also crosses my mind about the 10 digits of Numidium, the marriage of two (12), and the birth of a new (Anu)....

 

The time references could continue..................................

 

Damn Dwemer tried to build their own!]

Edited by InverseDragon, 15 February 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Toesock]

Hmm, this was a much more straightforward read than I expected.

 

I was thinking C0DA would be a treatise on some of the unanswered metaphysical mysteries MK has developed, but the finished product seems to intentionally avoid that. Instead it's a metaphor for MK's vision of what the lore community could be.

 

Canon is a modern concept that is really only relevant in an era that recognizes intellectual property rights. Where narrative is a profit-driven endeavor and stories are owned by corporations. The mythologies of the past were ever evolving, tweaked by hundreds of anonymous storytellers, changing, growing, self-contradicting and alive.

 

This story protests the modern situation. It's a showdown between corporate canon and ancient open-source storytelling.

 

So we have Jubal slay Numidium and marry Vivec. Numidium represents the non-contributor who sits back and nay-says everyone else's ideas intead of inventing their own Tamriel. Jubal's eventual accusation is that this sort of thinking secretly wants a "victor" - a version that wins at the expense of eveyone else. This is why Jubal cuts off his hands. He is not engaging in an argument, he is embracing all versions of Tamriel and declaring everything equally valid. That is why the story ends in a marriage. Compromise and happy coexistance instead of battle between ideas. This leads to the birth of the Amaranth - YOU (or I guess WE) - taking ownership of the TES myth back from Bethesda and making our own contributions without worrying which is truer.

 

Everyone keeps asking "which Nerevar", because all of our Nerevars are equally valid. Jubal tells several versions of Vivec's story to emphasize that many different Tamriels can co-exist. The weird TV-head part is there to comment on the commercial nature of canon that is dictated by a corporation for profit. 

 

It's not a new idea. Many people including myself have espoused this viewpoint for ages now. I suppose it is nice to hear it from someone whose ideas are often elevated above those of the rest of the community however. MK's Tamriel ain't more true than yours, so mutate his version to your liking. And then bring it to us, because myth doesn't become myth until it is shared.

[MerchantMudCrab]

What a neat metaphor that of Lorkhan's heart hole. It was a cage for the Time Dragon, it always was. When Trinimac removed the Heart of Lorkhan from its chest, and it set for Red Tower, Time estabilized. Thus the Dragon was bound, Time was bound. Now knowing for sure that Talos is Lorkhan, the Thalmor's goal makes loads more sense than before. Bormahu was always a prisioner of Lorkhan.

 

And now I think I got it clear that the Akatosh in MK's C0DA is the Time Dragon Oversoul and not just the Imperial Akatosh. For one, it refers to itself as "we".

Yeah it would have to be distinct from the Alessian deity since he starts eating himself. 

[Mustakettu85]

Toesock, you're as to-the-point as ever. *applauds*

Numidium represents the non-contributor who sits back and nay-says everyone else's ideas intead of inventing their own Tamriel.

I've had one like that pester me on dA. That kind won't budge indeed.

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

Hmm, this was a much more straightforward read than I expected.

 

I was thinking C0DA would be a treatise on some of the unanswered metaphysical mysteries MK has developed, but the finished product seems to intentionally avoid that. Instead it's a metaphor for MK's vision of what the lore community could be.

 

Canon is a modern concept that is really only relevant in an era that recognizes intellectual property rights. Where narrative is a profit-driven endeavor and stories are owned by corporations. The mythologies of the past were ever evolving, tweaked by hundreds of anonymous storytellers, changing, growing, self-contradicting and alive.

 

This story protests the modern situation. It's a showdown between corporate canon and ancient open-source storytelling.

 

So we have Jubal slay Numidium and marry Vivec. Numidium represents the non-contributor who sits back and nay-says everyone else's ideas intead of inventing their own Tamriel. Jubal's eventual accusation is that this sort of thinking secretly wants a "victor" - a version that wins at the expense of eveyone else. This is why Jubal cuts off his hands. He is not engaging in an argument, he is embracing all versions of Tamriel and declaring everything equally valid. That is why the story ends in a marriage. Compromise and happy coexistance instead of battle between ideas. This leads to the birth of the Amaranth - YOU (or I guess WE) - taking ownership of the TES myth back from Bethesda and making our own contributions without worrying which is truer.

 

Everyone keeps asking "which Nerevar", because all of our Nerevars are equally valid. Jubal tells several versions of Vivec's story to emphasize that many different Tamriels can co-exist. The weird TV-head part is there to comment on the commercial nature of canon that is dictated by a corporation for profit. 

 

It's not a new idea. Many people including myself have espoused this viewpoint for ages now. I suppose it is nice to hear it from someone whose ideas are often elevated above those of the rest of the community however. MK's Tamriel ain't more true than yours, so mutate his version to your liking. And then bring it to us, because myth doesn't become myth until it is shared.

 

Toesock? Beautiful as always.

Stealing!

[ashelia1]

What happened to Thalmor and Altmer?

[Dinas]

You tell us. 

[CaptiveMananaut]

Man I really need to read this. Think I might have time to do so tomorrow.

 

I do have to say, though, that this probably shouldn't be brought up to people from other forums who are just coming here for quick and easy answers. Like, can you even imagine? "What's up with the Dwemer?" "Oh, well, I'm pretty sure they all sacrificed themselves to become the skin of a big stompy robot but really you can make up whatever you want." Don't think that'd go over well.

 

Also, slightly off-topic, has anyone else noticed that clicking the "Into the Cave" picture on the Sketchbook embiggens "The Velothiid" picture instead? I assume that picture of "Into the Cave" is either not full size or cropped or both and I'd love to see the full (or full-sized) art.

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

Actually, yeah, "How about that C0Dart?" would be a great thread to start. Not to spread the discussions as spam, but to give takes on the artists' interpretations of various scenes, people, and events, fully apart from the War of Canon itself.

 

I mean,  this weekend should just be an Armistice of reflection and resource collection considering ESO's giant counterstrike. So much fun.

[trexalfa]

Actually, yeah, "How about that C0Dart?" would be a great thread to start. Not to spread the discussions as spam, but to give takes on the artists' interpretations of various scenes, people, and events, fully apart from the War of Canon itself.

 

I mean,  this weekend should just be an Armistice of reflection and resource collection considering ESO's giant counterstrike. So much fun.

One question, talking about the topics Toesock brought on: Numidium is, storywise, anything more than a metaphor in your C0DA?

[NUMINIT]

Also, slightly off-topic, has anyone else noticed that clicking the "Into the Cave" picture on the Sketchbook embiggens "The Velothiid" picture instead? I assume that picture of "Into the Cave" is either not full size or cropped or both and I'd love to see the full (or full-sized) art.

 

Fixed. Typo'ed it last night.

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

Put up the art thread.

 

In my C0DA, the Numidium has many meetings, but yes, I needed to finally address his central NO metaphor.

 

Here's a fun trick:

 

Why is Vivec never in the same space as Hlaalu Hir when Jubal can see them at the same time?

 

...

 

HIR name is Vivec? ...oh shi--!

 

What?

[MerchantMudCrab]

So the new man... is Jubal the Nu Man? Or is everybody the Nu Man? Is the flower baby the Nu Man? 

[trexalfa]

Put up the art thread.

 

In my C0DA, the Numidium has many meetings, but yes, I needed to finally address his central NO metaphor.

 

Here's a fun trick:

 

Why is Vivec never in the same space as Hlaalu Hir when Jubal can see them at the same time?

 

...

 

HIR name is Vivec? ...oh shi--!

 

What?

Oh gawd... I have to say that I noticed it in the name but dismissed it later. My question was directed at you cause, you know, maybe the dialogue can say something about the agenda of the Dwemer, and its not only a metaphor.

 

 

 

Fixed. Typo'ed it last night.

 Welcome aboard!

[Mustakettu85]

HIR name is Vivec? ...oh shi--!

Thank you dear MK. It means this Kettu person gets at least some stuff right. Everyone likes it when their interpretation is somehow validated by the author. Makes one seem more... attuned to the magic.
//someone make me shut up please//

[Twisted Logic]

Eh? I don't think that's tr- oh well in your C0DA it can be true, though I'll always prefer to have Sovngarde in Aetherius.AlsoYAY WE FINALLY HAVE AN APPEARANCE FOR LORKHAN!

Where? I didn't see him in the sketchbook. Or at least I don't think I did.

[Cider!]

Where? I didn't see him in the sketchbook. Or at least I don't think I did.

http://aurbis.c0da.e...argrove/s20.jpg Bottom left

http://aurbis.c0da.e...argrove/s22.jpg

I know they are rough sketches but soon we'll get a good look and we got a description of him in the script.

Edited by Cider!, 15 February 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

Thank you dear MK. It means this Kettu person gets at least some stuff right. Everyone likes it when their interpretation is somehow validated by the author. Makes one seem more... attuned to the magic.
//someone make me shut up please//

 

Hir was Hir, what's every appearance of every Hir and Hir bring to bear? Some lessons of the Sermons come to mind....

 

...notice what Muatra/Worm/Tunnel does when set to Sul/Salt/Akatosh...

 

...wait a second. JUST WHO EXACTLY RUNS THE MORAG TONG IN THE FIRST PLACE?

[trexalfa]

Hir was Hir, what's every appearance of every Hir and Hir bring to bear? Some lessons of the Sermons come to mind....

 

...notice what Muatra/Worm/Tunnel does when set to Sul/Salt/Akatosh...

 

...wait a second. JUST WHO EXACTLY RUNS THE MORAG TONG IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Smells Mephala...

[Dinas]

Black hands. Such a simple thing but one of my favorites.

[Merry Eyesore the Elk]

No, I'm kidding. Vivec just said "Yes" and then [censored] happened.

[IceFireWarden]

WE ARE AMARANTH

 

I AM.

 

I AM NOT?

 

I AM AND ARE ALL WE.

 

WE I AM.

 

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

 

WE WE ARE.

 

I.

 

I AM–

 

NO. WE.

 

I + I = WE

 

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

 

WE IS LOVE.

 

WE IS US.

 

WE ARE.

 

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

 

LOVE US.

 

GOD IS LOVE.

 

WE ARE.

 

WE IS.

 

IS AND IS NOT.

 

WE IS.

 

IS AND IS NOT AND IS IT.

 

IS IT IS.

 

WE IS IT.

 

WE ARE WE.

 

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

 

WE ARE AMARANTH.

 

NEREVAR IS WE.

 

WELCOME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

[Capitol98]

JUST WHO EXACTLY RUNS THE MORAG TONG IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Me.

[TheGlassPrison]

And to think I HATED the Thalmor.
Until I realized what WE are.

The state of matter most fragile is a solid. Never let the Elder Scrolls solidify. Let our love remain liquid, nebulous.... Unbound.

WE are Thalmor.
And WE won.