Using "boys" to speak to everyone really needs to stop, and this is why.

[tmarg]

I use guys. I know there are some people who don't like it, but I generally don't like the alternatives. Folks, y'all have existing connotation, everyone sounds too formal. If I'm in a group where someone is bothered, I'll use whatever they want, though.

 

[Milo Rambaldi]

that's actually hilarious. because I'm a born-and-bred TEXAN so I always say "yall" in my personal life (in business/sales I say "you guys")

I would have laughed, told her she's stupid and to go pound sand

Well, as a southern boy, I said things like "Yes, ma'am" and was polite no matter what. I was raised to "kill them with kindness."

Now, adult me? That's a different animal.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I don't think anything is going to erase the history of "boy" being used to emasculate another man as a means of trying to wrangle the reins of a conflict in their direction. I've definitely heard people say it's condescending (and I very much agree, just think about the tone of voice someone in an argument would use it in) but I've not heard people complain about it outside of that, true.

That said, I think YEEEAH BOOOOI is hilarious and I do say it sometimes. I try to watch my language around people that won't like it though.

Yeah that's the thing, I don't think OP is complaining about that context of the word's use at all. More in a general manner. And while I agree there exist different connotations, "gg bois" doesn't really carry that baggage, imo.

I understand where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, you're asking people to conform to your single request instead of the other way around. Instead of not being offended by the innocuous term of "boy", you're asking everyone else to change. I understand being offended by something isn't necessarily a choice, but you do choose how to react to things. Nobody is trying to offend you with the term "boy". It's language. Not only that, it has long lost it's strict definition of "male", and can now also mean "this group of chums". And in this case, it's very clearly the latter.

On top of all this, it's only 1 word that you specifically are offended by. You aren't offended by "guy", despite it being nearly the exact same word in every way as "boy" aside from connotations with juveniles as opposed to adults when used to describe a specific person (which in this case is completely moot).

Compound that with the tens of thousands of other people that are offended by different, yet equally innocuous terms, and you can see how confusing that can become.

This sounds like your own personal request to everyone on planet earth to conform to language that doesn't slightly offend you. To me, that's ridiculous.

EDIT: Also, we've already had this thread.

Thanks for putting it into words way better than I ever could. Also I think astro has me on ignore for some reason so yeah...

 

[Thrill_house]

I use it all the time with my male friends. Probably say "Where we landing, boys?" Literally every evening with blackout.

I use guys as a catchall. Seems as if most people in my area do as well.

 

[the lizard]

I think I've been guilty of this. Not often, but I've caught myself.

The problem is that sometimes I use that phrasing when I'm playing with a group of friends all of whom are, in fact, males and take no issue with it. So, occasionally I might let it slip when playing with randoms by accident. I try not to, though.

 

[astro]

"Us"

Who are you speaking for?

Those of us it affects.

 

[SoyPrincess]

When I play Fortnite I say "Where we dropping folx". It's a bit of an adjustment to get used to saying it, but if it helps just one individual feel like they 'belong' on the Fortnite Party Bus then it was worth it to me.

 

[RoboitoAM]

People saying y'all

You've yee'd your last haw

 

[Raoh]

in spanish, we don't use words like "hey boys" "boys" .
We stick to "hey everyone" or "listen", we really don't get gender into the way we refer to everyone in the chat.

 

[Kcannon]

The thing with "guys" is that it became not only a gender-neutral term, but also a superversatile word in general.

 

[BuddyDharma]

Try being more profane. Some curse words are gender neutral.

"Where we droppin, fuckers?!"

 

[Apollo]

In my gaming group, we frequently use “hey guys” when referring to the group. It’s debatable whether or not “guys” is gendered at this point, but what helps is that at a certain point we had a discussion over whether or not the women in our group were cool with that. We were. It never hurts to check in with people to make sure they’re comfortable. Assuming that people are okay with your language is a different story.

 

[Etrian Darkness]

Open a cold one with the people.

 

[marrec]

I appreciate the effort you put into the OP, it's a good read.

We need to separate a few things here. Boys is used differently than guys or dudes. Guy and Dude are both very much gender neutral at this point. There is no going back with those words.

Boys is weird because it's more culturally insular I think, compared to Guy and Dude. It's use is influenced heavily by internet personalities and movies. The trajectory of its usage is similar, but it's influenced by people quoting actual phrases rather than a natural evolution of use. I.E. the ubiquitous "where we dropping boys".

 

[Doc Kelso]

When I play Fortnite I say "Where we dropping folx". It's a bit of an adjustment to get used to saying it, but if it helps just one individual feel like they 'belong' on the Fortnite Party Bus then it was worth it to me.

A fellow scholar, I see. Folx is the superior term when it comes to addressing a group of people.

 

[Bhonar]

Well, as a southern boy, I said things like "Yes, ma'am" and was polite no matter what. I was raised to "kill them with kindness."

Now, adult me? That's a different animal.

ohhhh you mean it was an adult woman??

I thought you meant a neighborhood girl around other kids ages, lol

If it was an adult woman, then of course I would not say the you're stupid or go pound sand parts. But I wouldn't have followed her instructions lol

 

[Lashley]

Never seen folk uses boys as a term for all but I've definitely seen guys used

 

[Big_Erk]

I'm never going to say Y'all or Folks because it sounds way too American for me, I think "everyone" is fine if you really have to say dumb shit like "where we dropping boys"

I don't know too many people who say y'all or folks. Those are regional things and the U.S. is pretty diverse linguistically.

 

[TheGhost]

Let's go boys, usually said because everyone in party chat is a guy.

When it's a mixed group it's let's go guys

 

[Kaban]

I sometimes use 'guys' as a way addressing a group consisting of both genders - I don't think I've ever used the term 'boys', but if I did it would probably be for a group of men.

I do understand that not everyone is a fan of 'guys' so I'll normally just stick to 'everyone'

 

[Soulstoner]

Try being more profane. Some curse words are gender neutral.

"Where we droppin, fuckers?!"

Try again. This offends the "unfuckable", or, those unable to "fuck".

 

[Angst]

I use "guys" in the gender neutral sense and I probably always will. But if a particular person told me that was hurtful I would be mindful to not do that in their presence

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Mmm, some real meta-discussion going on here, that's not a giant red flag.
The OP was asked why it bothered them. The OP explained it in great detail. There shouldn't be a reasonable expectation that they have to explain it further. Attempts to get them to do so come across more as negative pressure on the OP than any kind of "reasoned discussion".

Imagine this board where every discussion is just the OP telling everyone they disagree with to basically fuck off because they don't get it if they didn't get it while reading the OP. What a great place of discussion that would be.

Giant red flags indeed. Something tells me you wouldn't agree with that sort of discourse if you didn't agree with OPs sentiment.

 

[Neiteio]

I think it's readily understood that there is no actual gender being suggested when used that way. Same thing when we say "mankind," "you guys," etc. These words have different meanings in different contexts.

 

[marrec]

Never seen folk uses boys as a term for all but I've definitely seen guys used

It's very much a gaming chat thing I think. I've seen it used since the EQ raid days to address the entire raid group.

 

[Setsune]

Let's go boys, usually said because everyone in party chat is a guy.

When it's a mixed group it's let's go guys

Take a step back and read this again.

 

[Willin]

Try being more profane. Some curse words are gender neutral.

"Where we droppin, fuckers?!"

The actual solution.

 

[Crazy Izanagi]

I try to keep my language as inclusive as possible but I admit I still sometimes use stuff like “dude” as an intended neutral term.

 

[Chris1215]

Mmm, some real meta-discussion going on here, that's not a giant red flag.

The OP was asked why it bothered them. The OP explained it in great detail. There shouldn't be a reasonable expectation that they have to explain it further. Attempts to get them to do so come across more as negative pressure on the OP than any kind of "reasoned discussion".

Why would OP make a thread on a forum then if they are not open to having a back and forth discussion and instead just pointing everyone back to their original post?

 

[Setsune]

Imagine this board where every discussion is just the OP telling everyone they disagree with to basically fuck off because they don't get it if they didn't get it while reading the OP. What a great place of discussion that would be.

Giant red flags indeed. Something tells me you wouldn't agree with that sort of discourse if you didn't agree with OPs sentiment.

Wow, because that's definitely what's happening, and absolutely the subject of this thread.

Policing the discussion, check.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

While I understand your point of view, why let something like this bother you so much? There are a lot of other things that could be addressed when it comes to toxicity in the gaming community. Also, even though you do feel that way, no one is trying to exclude you from gaming by slang words they may use when it comes to a group of people. It comes off like you think these people are attacking you by how they use words and that's simply not the case.

You're thinking about this in terms of intention instead of impact.

People say and do all kinds of things and not intend to hurt someone else. That doesn't mean they don't. Probably in your lifetime you have known people who used homophobic language or derogatory terms for differently-abled people to describe things they don't like. But people have largely stopped using language like this because, regardless of how it is intended, it has a negative impact on the people around them. We now have a different and healthier expectation from others as a result.

The request in this thread is not as severe of a case. This situation is more about courtesy, visibility, and respect. But it's the same idea that people use language they are accustomed without always thinking about how it is perceived. You probably don't mean to be disrespectful. You probably don't mean to exclude women or non-binary people from your conversation. But this is often a side-effect of the language you use whether you intend it to or not.

So if you don't want to do that, why not make the small, free change to make sure you don't?


I'll give you another example that may be more relatable. I used to work with a guy whose older brother was very popular. Everybody called the older brother "Mappy." When the younger brother started getting older and making friends, everybody called him "Mappy Jr". People meant this as a lighthearted joke about him being a popular guy's little brother. But he really hated this nickname because it put him in his older brother's shadow at all times. People wouldn't see him or greet him without implicitly acknowledging that he was somebody else's sibling. It made him feel like people didn't care about who he was, or what he liked, because everybody liked his brother more. He asked people to stop calling him that after a few years, and people felt bad, so they stopped.

What you say and what you do has consequences you may not intend. Something that feels normal and harmless to you might be disrespectful to somebody else. Chances are if someone you knew and liked asked you to stop calling them something, you would. It's not hard to show that same courtesy to others too. You lose nothing by doing it, so why wouldn't you?

 

[marrec]

I try to keep my language as inclusive as possible but I admit I still sometimes use stuff like “dude” as an intended neutral term.

Do not worry, dude is super neutral at this point.

 

[EmptyWarren]

I just use folks and peeps. Covers everyone and it immediately sounds inviting and non-hostile.

 

[Anoregon]

How do y’all “y’all” haters feel about “yinz”?

All PA-specific nomenclature is abominable

 

[Visanideth]

I don't think it's part of my way of speaking, but I'll pay extra attention to make sure I don't use that expression.

 

[marrec]

All PA-specific nomenclature is abominable

Yinz take that back.

 

[datbapple]

I think it's readily understood that there is no actual gender being suggested when used that way. Same thing when we say "mankind," "you guys," etc. These words have different meanings in different contexts.

yeap

generally it works as a catch all that most people do not get too hung up on.

 

[Neiteio]

You're thinking about this in terms of intention instead of impact.

People say and do all kinds of things and not intend to hurt someone else. That doesn't mean they don't. Probably in your lifetime you have known people who used homophobic language or derogatory terms for differently-abled people to describe things they don't like. But people have largely stopped using language like this because, regardless of how it is intended, it has a negative impact on the people around them. We now have a different and healthier expectation from others as a result.

The request in this thread is not as severe of a case. This situation is more about courtesy, visibility, and respect. But it's the same idea that people use language they are accustomed without always thinking about how it is perceived. You probably don't mean to be disrespectful. You probably don't mean to exclude women or non-binary people from your conversation. But this is often a side-effect of the language you use whether you intend it to or not.

So if you don't want to do that, why not make the small, free change to make sure you don't?


I'll give you another example that may be more relatable. I used to work with a guy whose older brother was very popular. Everybody called the older brother "Mappy." When the younger brother started getting older and making friends, everybody called him "Mappy Jr". People meant this as a lighthearted joke about him being a popular guy's little brother. But he really hated this nickname because it put him in his older brother's shadow at all times. People wouldn't see him or greet him without implicitly acknowledging that he was somebody else's sibling. It made him feel like people didn't care about who he was, or what he liked, because everybody liked his brother more. He asked people to stop calling him that after a few years, and people felt bad, so they stopped.

What you say and what you do has consequences you may not intend. Something that feels normal and harmless to you might be disrespectful to somebody else. Chances are if someone you knew and liked asked you to stop calling them something, you would. It's not hard to show that same courtesy to others too. You lose nothing by doing it, so why wouldn't you?

These are indeed excellent points, as always with you.

Side note, I miss you buddy. Been way too busy past year.

 

[Chris1215]

You're thinking about this in terms of intention instead of impact.

People say and do all kinds of things and not intend to hurt someone else. That doesn't mean they don't. Probably in your lifetime you have known people who used homophobic language or derogatory terms for differently-abled people to describe things they don't like. But people have largely stopped using language like this because, regardless of how it is intended, it has a negative impact on the people around them. We now have a different and healthier expectation from others as a result.

The request in this thread is not as severe of a case. This situation is more about courtesy, visibility, and respect. But it's the same idea that people use language they are accustomed without always thinking about how it is perceived. You probably don't mean to be disrespectful. You probably don't mean to exclude women or non-binary people from your conversation. But this is often a side-effect of the language you use whether you intend it to or not.

So if you don't want to do that, why not make the small, free change to make sure you don't?


I'll give you another example that may be more relatable. I used to work with a guy whose older brother was very popular. Everybody called the older brother "Mappy." When the younger brother started getting older and making friends, everybody called him "Mappy Jr". People meant this as a lighthearted joke about him being a popular guy's little brother. But he really hated this nickname because it put him in his older brother's shadow at all times. People wouldn't see him or greet him without implicitly acknowledging that he was somebody else's sibling. It made him feel like people didn't care about who he was, or what he liked, because everybody liked his brother more. He asked people to stop calling him that after a few years, and people felt bad, so they stopped.

What you say and what you do has consequences you may not intend. Something that feels normal and harmless to you might be disrespectful to somebody else. Chances are if someone you knew and liked asked you to stop calling them something, you would. It's not hard to show that same courtesy to others too. You lose nothing by doing it, so why wouldn't you?

This is an eye opening response and I appreciate you replying to my comment. You're right. It doesn't hurt to try and make the small change if that's something you do. I tend to say "guys" all the time when referring to a group of people

 

[JessePJ]

Where we dropping, freaks?
Where we going, weirdos?
Revive me, doorknobs!

 

[astro]

You're thinking about this in terms of intention instead of impact.

People say and do all kinds of things and not intend to hurt someone else. That doesn't mean they don't. Probably in your lifetime you have known people who used homophobic language or derogatory terms for differently-abled people to describe things they don't like. But people have largely stopped using language like this because, regardless of how it is intended, it has a negative impact on the people around them. We now have a different and healthier expectation from others as a result.

The request in this thread is not as severe of a case. This situation is more about courtesy, visibility, and respect. But it's the same idea that people use language they are accustomed without always thinking about how it is perceived. You probably don't mean to be disrespectful. You probably don't mean to exclude women or non-binary people from your conversation. But this is often a side-effect of the language you use whether you intend it to or not.

So if you don't want to do that, why not make the small, free change to make sure you don't?


I'll give you another example that may be more relatable. I used to work with a guy whose older brother was very popular. Everybody called the older brother "Mappy." When the younger brother started getting older and making friends, everybody called him "Mappy Jr". People meant this as a lighthearted joke about him being a popular guy's little brother. But he really hated this nickname because it put him in his older brother's shadow at all times. People wouldn't see him or greet him without implicitly acknowledging that he was somebody else's sibling. It made him feel like people didn't care about who he was, or what he liked, because everybody liked his brother more. He asked people to stop calling him that after a few years, and people felt bad, so they stopped.

What you say and what you do has consequences you may not intend. Something that feels normal and harmless to you might be disrespectful to somebody else. Chances are if someone you knew and liked asked you to stop calling them something, you would. It's not hard to show that same courtesy to others too. You lose nothing by doing it, so why wouldn't you?

This is a very good post. I hope you don't mind, but I added it as a threadmark as INTENT VS IMPACT.

I would like to add it to the OP, also, if that's okay with you?

 

[LavaBadger]

The thing with "guys" is that it became not only a gender-neutral term, but also a superversatile word in general.

But you understand that this is your opinion, right? And that while the word may make perfect sense to you, the point of the request is to think about what the other person might feel about it. And since you can't always know, the simplest and kindest thing you can do is just use another word.

 

[ArjanN]

''

It's very much a gaming chat thing I think. I've seen it used since the EQ raid days to address the entire raid group.

I don't know about boys, but using 'guys' to address a group of mixed company is just common venacular, that's in no way specific to gaming.

 

[abellwillring]

For what it's worth, I honestly don't see this done very often outside of scenarios where literally everyone is a male. "Guys" as a collective is definitely pervasive, but that is often used by groups of females to speak to one another as well -- it's entirely non-gender specific for a group in today's society.

 

[DarkStream]

And why is this in the gaming section?
I also say "thank god" yet I don't believe in him. See what I'm saying? I use it as a saying yet I don't attach any meaning to the individual words.
Context is what matters. In this case, "boy" isn't used to define gender, it's more of a saying that evolved traditionally as a way to address a room. Language is fluid. I don't think using "boys" or "guys" in a phrase such as you stated in the OP have anything to do with gender today.

 

[marrec]

''


I don't know about boys, but using 'guys' to address a group of mixed company is just common venacular, that's in no way specific to gaming.

Specifically about "boys"

Guys and dude as gender neutral has been common usage for decades now.

IE if I'm log into discord I'll say "whats up boys!" despite knowing it's a mixed gender channel, but if I walk into a room with I'll say "whats up guys!"

 

[JaxiPup]

Being trans , completely agree that 'boys, guys, dude, etc' need to end when interacting with people you're not familiar with. Hopping into something through lfg and getting misgendered for an hour isn't fun folks.

Been called a lotta slurs for asking to not be called dude, believe it or not. So a simple 'just say you don't like it' isn't the easiest path. That said, gendered language is a pervasive social issue that extends outside of gaming in ways most cis males wouldn't be aware of, so I doubt we're gonna see a shift towards neutrality anytime soon. Queer spaces have made rad strides, especially with the adoption of 'y'all', though.

 

[astro]

And why is this in the gaming section?
I also say "thank god" yet I don't believe in him. See what I'm saying? I use it as a saying yet I don't attach any meaning to the individual words.
Context is what matters. In this case, "boy" isn't used to define gender, it's more of a saying that evolved traditionally. Language is fluid. I don't think using "boys" or "guys" in a phrase such as you stated in the OP don't have anything to do with gender today.

Second paragraph in the OT.

Also discussed/explained if you read the thread.

 

[BuddyDharma]

Try again. This offends the "unfuckable", or, those unable to "fuck".

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Wow, because that's definitely what's happening, and absolutely the subject of this thread.

Policing the discussion, check.

That's exactly what's happening. Look at every post OP made in response to someone disagreeing with them in this thread and count how many times they just say: "I wrote the OP, if you didn't get the OP I can't help you, bye".

I never said it was the subject of this thread, I made one post regarding the matter before you replied to me, and like 6 posts regarding the actual topic. And I certainly won't continue this with you just so you can say I'm derailing shit. Have a nice day.